You’re In a Room FULL OF WITCHES And Don’t Mention it To THEM? - Ashley and Joel Discuss The Mayfair Witches S1E6 - Transference

You’re In a Room FULL OF WITCHES And Don’t Mention it To THEM? - Ashley and Joel Discuss The Mayfair Witches S1E6 - Transference

Joel: The Articulate Coveen is the original unofficial podcast and fan community for An Rice's interview with the Vampire and An Rice's Immortal Universe from AMC and AMC Plus. Welcome to

Joel: the Articulate Cove and we are your hosts. I'm Joel.

Ashley: I'm Ashley.

Joel: And we are the Articulate Cove and In this episode particularly, we are gonna be talking about the sixth episode of the Mayfair Witches from AMC and AMC Plus We are the original unofficial fan podcast and community for AMC's immortal universe. From Anne Rice's books in particular. We're fans of the Vampire Chronicles and interview with the Vampire. We are discussing all of AMC's shows, though, including this one at the Mayfair Witches. Now, actually, if anybody's been listening

Joel: to

Joel: our coverage over the last couple of weeks, they know that we are not quite as big a fans of this series as we are of interview with the Vampire. And in particular, this week, I think I kind of turned the corner. And I think a lot of our fan base did too. And it made me think, I listen. This is a universe. This is a universe we hope expands. Right? And I think this is something that we need to prepare for. There will be there will be shows that we love a lot. There will be shows that are fine. There will be shows that are probably bad. And that will honestly be a sign of of, you know, success for this universe and for this -- Right. -- concept of a connected and rice storytelling universe. So in in honor of those fans who, for whatever reason, decide that any given series is not for them, I think we ought to do as a service a little bit more of a synopsis of each episode as we go. And so that way, for folks

Ashley: to take the car off

Joel: the Mayfair wagon, they can listen to our show, get a little bit of, you know, fun commentary from people who might even feel the same way that they do about the show. But also they'll know about the moving storyline as it continues to march forward and in particular any connections that it has. I know we've got a lot of people that have been watching the show basically solely for the potential crossover episode that we're supposed to get with somebody from the Vampire Show happening into one of these episodes. At this point, I have no clue what that's gonna be. But regardless

Ashley: Yeah. Who the hell can figure that out at this point?

Joel: Right. Right.

Ashley: I

Joel: think we'll try to do a little bit better job of of synopsizing these episodes. Alright. So, Ashley, first off, this one, the episode was called transference. Tell me what you thought of this one, your your big, your your overall thoughts on this episode.

Ashley: I don't know, Joel. I couldn't even make myself watch it twice. I gotta be real this was this is the this just was really off the rails as far as, like, you we've completely left behind any sort of any sort of plot from the book at this point. It's fine, but it's just it's it's nothing what we recognize as as the witching hour for sure at this point. I'm just like, I don't even these people are not recognizable to me. When Rowan couldn't even get a little fucking feisty over him trying to take her necklace from her, she was just kinda whiny and weird about it. I was just like, I had to throw my hands up. I was like, well, she's never gonna get bad ass. Is she? She's always gonna be kind of kind of crying and sniveling. And this is what we've got. And I'm just gonna have to live with it at this point.

Joel: So so this episode largely is about Rowan deciding that she doesn't want this connection to lasher. She doesn't want to be the preferred designate. She doesn't want this connection to this family that she has surged her entire life for, actually. Right. See how she's found them. So, like, fuck that.

Ashley: I don't want you. I don't like it. It's too hot here, the humidity.

Joel: She goes about reaching out to Cortland who seems like her only potential ally and asks him what he could do. He says, oh, I couldn't possibly, except I do know somebody who might could. And so they have a big they have a big witches get together, and they're gonna transfer the power, transfer Lascher's favor, and the mafia imrolled and the, you know, designee of the family. They're gonna transfer all of that to someone else who understands the family and is onboard with the mission of the family as what Cortland has said here. So that's the overarching story of this episode. And once I got that, once I understood that's what transference meant, once I understood that's where this was going, Ashley, I immediately thought, did someone come in midseason and say, hey, this isn't a character we can build a universe around. We gotta write her out of the story. I sort of

Ashley: get rid of your main character Jeez.

Joel: I sort of wondered if they weren't just gonna go straight to to Mona here, basically, and be like, never mind, Mona's the the designee in the second book. Let's just go there. I and

Ashley: this model is not

Joel: who we have here. We have Tessa instead, but it is it is such an interesting conceit. None of this for people who don't read the books None of this happens in the book. None of this is discussed in the book. The very idea and I'll tell you, actually, it feels like to me the the moment where you checked out on the episode, is when Rowan pulled her my precious moment about --

Ashley: Yes. -- Emerald. Yeah.

Joel: You know, the Mayfair Emerald is a special item. But it's not the one ring. Y'all, there is a very successful movie franchise too in fact, and a TV series now about that particular magical item. And they're all better than this. Yeah. They're all. They're so much better.

Joel: Even

Ashley: that city -- So much better. -- elongated hobbit non sits that I sat through. It's all even better than this. The love story between the fucking elf and the dwarf. I'm at the point, guys. I'm like, I think I might be hate watching now. It might be time. It's almost there.

Joel: So the moment for me that I cross over and I literally sat up, we were watching this in bed. I sat up in bed and I turned to Kelly and I said, I now hate this show. It was when Cortland is having his conversation with Rowan, and he comes right out and says that this is how Julian became the head witch of the family is that Katherine didn't want it and transferred his power and transfers the connection to Lascher to Julian. Folks, not no, but hell no, fuck no man. Look Julien Julien is we've talked about Julien so much on this show. We thought will they won't they? Or they have they written them out? They might as well have written him out here because they've made it a bargain that he and Lascher and Catherine make because Catherine's put upon as the, you know, as the center of the family that's bullshit. Julian was the witch because he was the stronger witch and Lascher was drawn to him also. Right. Julian was a queer man, and he was drawn to Lascher in a sexual romantic way. You know, Lascher was only one of his male lovers. And here, it's like it's a craving thing where he wanted the power of the family and Katherine didn't, you know. I don't I anyway, That was the moment where I was, like, fuck this and fuck that and fuck all of these folks. I don't listen. This

Ashley: is amazing.

Joel: Land a fairly satisfying they they might land a satisfying season of television still. That's possible, I suppose. And I've see I see in our group every now and again, you'll see somebody who says, you know, I'm really enjoying this. Some of those folks even also enjoy the novels. They're just like I very much have a thing where books are one thing and adaptations are just a complete another thing and you gotta imagine them almost as like, you know, answer songs instead of cover songs, you know, I don't I don't know, man. To me, everything that I like about this first book has been thrown out of the window and a lot of things I don't like about supernatural genre television has been brought in and added into this story. Yeah. And and Yeah. Overall, I have flipped the switch now. I'm I'm officially hate watching.

Ashley: Well, and the thing is too. It's like Rowan at this point is like, cyked to meet this family. She's really like in the book, this is really important to her. This is what she's been wanting her entire life is to know more about her family and who she is and where she comes from and all of that, especially now that she's an orphan basically. You know? And so this whole idea of her not wanting anything to do with them and kind of pushing everybody away is so strange the scene with Jojo in the hospital were they're talking about what what our Rowan would be thrilled about and excited about and ready to start fucking making moves and donating money and building wings on the hospital. This Rowan is like, have a job in San Francisco. The fuck.

Joel: Okay. Right there, that's another thing, Ashley. We've been told why did why were Michael and and Aaron Michael Curry and Aaron Lightner from the novel? Why were those characters combined into one SIPrian Grieve newly created character here other than changing race which they could have done and kept either of the original characters, honestly. But other than changing the race, why would they need to do that? We've been sold a bill of goods that the reason is they wanted to create a more agent, a more a more activated Rowan, a more centralized Rowan, Rowan who has full agency and isn't sort of talked about as often as she is in the novel. And yet, the one big thing that drives Rowan in the novel is the concept of extending life not just for herself, the thing that she finds most alluring about Lasher is the is the idea of immortality, the idea that the two of them together could literally begin to mess with cells and cellular structure and extend human life. Not only ruins, but human life in general. That's what Rowan's idea is is big time medical advancement for the human race. And the way that the race actualizes that in the novel first and foremost is through Mayfair Medical. She comes up with the concept for the first time of the family in you know, investing in a big way in the medical industry. Pierce, who is Cortland's son, Pierce is the in charge. He's the lawyer in charge of the family at this point in the novel. Cortland's already dead. And Pierce says, oh, I don't know about medical investment. But once Rowan puts it together, she or the whole board gets on board, everybody's excited about it. They make a boatload of money and do a lot of good for the human race in the novels. And here yeah. They take it away from her completely. They're already doing it. It's like, it's not even Jojo's idea. It's one of the old men's, I guess.

Ashley: Yeah. Well, and that's the other thing. It's like, how how does it how is a character that's being ruled by this this this one ring, this fucking emerald? How is how is does she have any agency when she's you know, it's like they're treating it like a cursed amulet. You know, like it's a fucking horcrux or something. Like, it's just It's not the way it's not the way this works. Oh,

Joel: I it's it's just it's very very startling to me. Alright. Let's let's let's jump back. I said I was gonna give a little synopsis and then we just jump straight ahead. So this this episode

Ashley: Yes. We always

Joel: Well, first of all, first and foremost, we do get our Scottish The only good thing about this show is the Scottish story. Although here too, they've changed things with with the origin of Lascher. I mentioned this, I think I mentioned this on last week. But, you know, she begins to say the words when her sister suggests it. You know, Suzanne doesn't even call lacer down herself. They take that agency away as well. Her sister's being chased by the no good nick, and and so she calls lacer down. But here, Again, this is the best part of the show. I would say by far, it's the one time that Lascher looks interesting to me. He comes out of the plane. Right. Right. I thought for a second in the shadow that they were gonna have him in the modern suit, in the the Fantasy Island suit, and I was literally gonna throw something at my television. But they didn't. They've got

Ashley: Well, we definitely got the nippy buttons.

Joel: We

Ashley: still got them. We still got them this episode because we're that fucking soon

Joel: again.

Ashley: I'm sorry. I'm so angry. I'm so sorry. You were so angry.

Joel: He's got the

Ashley: highly carb

Joel: on and stuff. He comes out of the flame. I dig I dig all of that. It's I'm gonna be very interested here. I assume Suzanne was gonna die there. You know, Lascher doesn't free her like this in the novel. Also, the the ring you know, I'm gonna say the ring. It's not a ring. The angle. The key that we've seen is brought into

Ashley: It's a literal thing. And again, I'm,

Joel: like,

Joel: Yeah. But not just a key, but it's a key that belongs to the witch hunter, which are they are they are they making the witch hunters somehow central to this, like, ongoing narrative too? Are we gonna find that this preacher man in the modern day storyline is somehow connected to the ancient? I mean, I don't know, man. I I don't know where they're gonna go with this. In the in the novels, the Emerald is something that Susan not even Susan. It's Deborah. Deborah covered. Deborah. And yeah. And Lascher goes and gets it for her, steals it for her, and brings it to her. And it's literally just a token of Lascher's affection for his witches. There is it's no magical talisman. There's there's honestly no magic in it. They've made it this, like, bottle for the genie that is lasher. And when it's on, he's sort of contained and when it's off he's loosened, And and now they're gonna tie it back to this ancient story line too. And again, I just, man, I don't know what they're doing. This this feels like feels like, you know, basic cable we've said it before. It's this is, like, Highlander bullshit. This is this is nice. I mean, late season charmed. You know, that's what this feels

Joel: like.

Ashley: Yeah. This is This is something. This is something else I tell you. I oh, yeah.

Joel: So I I wanna ask you about the SIPRIAN and Rowan's relationship. So that's once we come to the modern day story line, here they are in bed again. And I asked Kelly, I'm like, how did she get we we saw her wandering away from the house last week. Right. She she breaks the spell, kills Carlotta, and wanders away from the house in her, you know, nineteen twenties gown. And now she's in bed with Ciprian. How did she get there? How did like, how did this happen? Also, they're in a relationship now, I guess, or Rowan's version. We know that she sleeps around a lot. But I mean, like,

Joel: what

Joel: I don't know. How do you feel that that's a problem that they skipped over that entirely? Or do you feel like the groundhog day thing that we had going last week kinda makes up You know, they maybe they've lived the lives together already in their heads.

Ashley: In their heads I mean, sure. Fine. Whatever. But they didn't say that, and they didn't even go to imply that. It's so unearned. It's like it's it's it just feels it feels like this is in the script, so we did it. And if I, like, I can't even watch these after after the show thinks anymore because I'm so tired of listening to that woman, try to explain what the fuck they're doing and make it make sense. It's makes my head hurt. Oh, and what like, what Carlotta said, we don't we don't get any any sort of, like, we don't I mean, we're not gonna mention it. We just how how far have we moved forward in time? Like, for real, it's very confusing. Like, we now we have yeah. Now

Joel: that's the only thing that means.

Ashley: Relationship in Bloom, and we haven't even mentioned old old crazy ant ant dead, Carla. What's hell?

Joel: What a moment that would have been, by the way, to show the power and influence of the family. Have a John Grisham's the firm style scene where Rowan's there, you know, has to be called into the police station or whatever, with Carlotta's body, etcetera. So this is the third dead body you've been found with. In the last -- Right. -- four or five days, lady. What's going on? And then all of a sudden, Portland and a couple of boys that we've never scene that happened to also have the last name of Mayfair. They sweep into the room in fancy suits, and it's hush hush wink wink, pat pat on the back. I appreciate you so much. All the cops disappear from the room, and Cortland sits down on the table, and he says, now, sugar, this is just going to go away. And you're not gonna have to worry about it no more. And I want you to know that it means so much to me that you defended yourself from Carlotta when she was in such a rage. I've known my sister's anger for years. You know, you could've had this amazing scene. You've already returned that then Well, but no. But if fucking Anne did. Right? Like Anne did. Right. And it's not she didn't have this scene, but I'm saying, you could have she does show the overwhelming influence of the family. We talked about in our book discussion. There's the scene where Pierce is talking to Michael about his previous success. And Michael just feels it. He goes, oh, this is background check. This is I've had PIs on me for weeks probably that I didn't know about. Every person I've ever talked to has been interviewed or investigated. You know? Like, this dude knows my life history and everybody I've ever slept with and every scam I was at, you know, anyway, that moment I never played in this show. And here's You could have spent You could spend five minutes, and Rowan would have been beholden to them then. Right? So if if Crane says, you know, I've got away, actually. You could get rid of Lasher, and I could take him on or one of the other witches could, you know, blah, blah. Anyway, all of that would begin to make a little sense. You'd get some character development for all these people. But no, it's all done off screen. I get and we're just tough to assume that either the cops didn't care or the Mayfair's are so powerful, blah. It's

Ashley: a complete it's a complete lack of relationship building amongst the characters too. Like, we're just supposed to accept these relationships as they're shown to us. We're supposed to accept that now she's comfortable hanging out with Cortland and talking to him about his ALS. You know, like, it's just it's so and and and you're totally right about the family is strong, the family has power, the family has cloud, and And and really, they're just being presented in this version. It feels like they're like a like a little circus sideshow. You know what I mean? Like, Like, they're like, oh, the witches, and it's all about that aspect and not about, like, the other aspects of of, you know, of the family. It's like the focus is way too much on this. Quite frankly, as we've also discussed, created acts of witchcraft that weren't even in the book. So it's really like we're really getting shortchanged on on not only the history of this very cool family, which is without a doubt the best part of the book, what they're giving us is just is just lazy and haphazard as far as relationships are being built. And you're totally right. Way too much shit's happening off screen. Way too much. Like, that is not good story to tell. You're you're telling me, not showing me. I don't like that.

Joel: A great a great moment. And I I think a great example of that, honestly. Is Tessa comes to have a meeting with Rowan as the designee of the family, Tessa, our blonde haired activist that we were introduced to in the last episode. You know, we've heard she's excited to have somebody that's using the power of the family for good. So she comes to Rowan and she shows a picture on her phone and she goes, This is your mother's heart. Right?

Joel: I

Joel: just I was like, what a fucking way to start a conversation? And also, did Rowan so nonchalant? Like, well, I've seen a lot of hearts.

Ashley: I've seen a lot of hearts. I've seen a lot of hearts. Now this is where I'm really gonna start hating on her performance. Like, I'm at that point too. I'm just like, ugh, you're so boring. Right now. I I there's no need to be this uninteresting and to be, like, frankly, at this point, you're not you're not even charming me. Like, I'm not even, like, charms by you. And and that's sucks. You're the fucking lead character.

Joel: Ugh. She's noticed that. It's the same way with it's the same way with Mona slash tessa. No. Oh god. There and there's just we've talked about this too, but there's just no there was so much chemistry. Think about think about the price that we had for characters like was it was it brick top, you know, and and our councilman that was was my favorite throughout this this season and interview, you know, anyway, they're Yes. They were limitless to get a show. Just right there. And listen. Listen. Here's the one thing. I think So

Ashley: even a minor character or

Joel: a black male. Right. So it's coming. Right. Right. Right. A million percent. And they were they were all bringing their a game. They were all committed. They were all seemingly in love with the content. Here's here's the positive note that I'll struck a strike in the middle of this. We've already gotten a renewal for season two, AMC is committed not only to to this show, but the universe at large. They have to then understand this is a long term play. And just like they did with The Walking Dead, when there are needed changes in both the creative team and in front of the camera. Right? Those can be made. Those those can be made and should be made. I joked about writing off the character of Rowan, but realistically, there are a couple of places where that character could go away and be replaced as our primary antagonist for this family. Right?

Ashley: Yeah. And

Joel: you've already set up one that might have a little more spark in Christmas. I don't love the character of Tessa here. I hate what they've done with her as compared to the character that she's based on from the novels Mona, which I wanna get to right now. This is another example, Ashley, where I wanna get your opinion, why in the world would you need to change this name and character we've talked about it before, Mona has red hair. The character of Mona Mayfair as a name is yes, a little comic bookie. That's sort of the point she's too cute for belief, like, that is that character almost. Right? She's literally got the big bows, the fancy outfits, she is a little southern princess. Also, She's the Blanche Devereaux. She's she's a a cat about town. She's, you know, what what's the character from a cat on a hot tin roof? I mean, this this is -- Mhmm. -- this is that sultry southern character. Now in the novels, she's too young. I get that you wanna age her up. She's a late teen, early twenties. That's what we've got in the character of Tessa. But why not make her a red head? Why not make her named Mona? There's no reason that you don't even care. Did did that make sense?

Ashley: Yeah. I don't even care about, like, the hair color doesn't generally bothered me unless it's like a really fucking big deal in the character. Like, it doesn't bother me. I don't care. Even if it's a big deal in the character, I really don't fucking mind. I don't it doesn't matter. But but they're literally the only reason to make any changes to Mona is if you think it's Iky that she's so young and that's really it. I mean, that's all. And all you do is the same thing we do with Claudia, and that's h or up. So I don't understand unless they do don't want you even thinking about how young Mona is when we started out. You know what I mean? Unless they just don't want you to even even associate the characters, But the thing is is book readers are automatically gonna associate these two characters. Like, you can't avoid it. She's Even if Mona's gonna show up, you know, season two. And we actually get real Mona, we'll always remember that we've got fucking tricked by this tessa bitch. You know what I mean?

Joel: Yeah. Yeah. We got we got cousin Bobby from from the -- Yeah. -- Brady Bunch over here. Where did you come from? No worries. It's the only multiverse. Yeah. Here's here's the thing though too. Okay. So in the book, she is this sort of sultry, very sexual character as a matter of fact, in in the novels, she's made the promise to herself that she's gonna screw every male, mainframe member of the family you know, she makes that promise when she's like twelve, I think, or something. And she's done by the time that the novel Lasher starts, I believe. Here, how do they translate that to screen? They give her the magical power of date rape, I guess. Like, she glamorous people and they do anything that she and she glamorous men, especially, and they do anything she wants. That's you wanna talk about Iike,

Ashley: Yeah. And what are you feeling? Again, once again, like, not giving a character any real agency. Like, you talk about you want this to be the feminist show. Well, why why why why would her power have to be one hundred percent about fucking men? Period. It's so it's so aggravating. You know, like, it just like, that that's what her character is is, you know, based on. She fucking can trick men into to her will. Well, we've all been doing that for fucking years. Y'all women have been doing that forever forever.

Joel: Our our Scooby Doo Telemasca, meanwhile, has -- Jeez. -- they've got -- She's the Mayfair Emerald. And SIPRIAN is gonna go into the interrogation room. Kelly asked me, by the way, why would they take that into a soundproof room? Why is he doing it that they're And I said, because they built one set. They built one set and then that desk that the old lady can sit at. That's all they got for the Tallahassee.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah.

Joel: So anyway, he's in this room and he's gonna go into the the memories of the the object. And try to find out what the origin of Lascher is, I guess. That's what he's doing here. They don't really say that. They sort of, you know, again, whatever man, let's just get to it. So he goes back in time and he's there as Suzanne is about to be dunked into the water and drowned for her witchcraft. I first and foremost, this organization's entire purpose supposedly is to protect Rowan. That's what we've been told. Rowan and Ciprian literally have a fight at the beginning of this episode because Lasher is in the room with them and Rowan wasn't telling him that. Or was telling him specifically that Lasher wasn't there?

Ashley: That he wasn't there. He

Joel: immediately goes. Let me leave you here. Yeah. Let me leave you here, and then I'm gonna go to the office. And then the organization is there. We're gonna do the experiment on this device, and they're like, they don't none of them think maybe Lascher's gonna fuck with Rowan while we do this?

Ashley: Right. Right. Right. I will say we did get a little a little nod the fact that this is not a telemasca mother house we are in, because the one of the one of the one of the one of the Kuberdue crew said, shouldn't don't you think we should take this to a mother house or something like the mother house or something like that? So I kind of like that reassurance. And maybe my idea that this is just that the New Orleans office is just a complete shit show. It is actually accurate.

Joel: Yes. Yes. I don't know if you are familiar with this show, but there's a show that is is technically a spin off of the original what we do in the shadow's film, I think it comes from the BBC or something. I watch it on HBO Max. It's called Wellington paranormal. Are you familiar with this show?

Ashley: Oh, I'm not.

Joel: It's very very funny. It's it is like what we do in the shadows. It is a mockumentary style show, but it's set in Wellington, New Zealand. And it is about a couple of cops who have been assigned to the paranormal squad. And so like they have, you know, aliens and pod people and, you know, ghosts and mummies and whatever. Episode to episode. Very, very funny. But it's it's like the office but with spookies effectively. Love it. That is sort of what this Tallamaska group seems like to me. This is this is the Wellington paranormal of the Tallamaska, basically.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. It's like like yeah. That sounds a hundred percent accurate. Also, I kind of wanna watch the other show, but not so much this

Joel: you're right. So so the again, one little good part in the episode that I did enjoy a little bit is the gathering of the witch So Cortland says, my cousin, dolly Jean, which by the way, we should mention here, we do have the the the black side of the fair family, which comes from the novels. However, as many of our fans have pointed out in the Facebook group, which by the way, if you're on Facebook, join our Facebook group, we've also got a discord community. You could join if you're not a Facebook person, either one of those, the links are in the show notes. Several people in the Facebook group have mentioned, and I think of the Discord as well, the black side of the Mayfair family and the white side of the Mayfair family very specifically do not mix. They don't go to social gatherings together. They both benefit from the, you know, the giant legacy pool of money that that is the Mayfair trust. But you know, what is it? It's not grandma mine, and and that Nana or something. Anyway, Mayfair's grandmother that passes away early in that novel Mary's grandmother, excuse me, that passes away early in that novel, one single representative of the white side of the family shows up to drop off a check. Like, that's it. And it's very like, they meet them at the door and it's very confrontational kind of thing. So, like, the fact that Dolly Jean and Cortland are hanging out and and passing notes and and calling each other is a little range, but okay, okay, whatever. I did like though the gathering of these witches, and we see we get a cross section of the powerfully, you know, gifted members, female members of the Mayfair family and the current generations. I think this is kinda cool. And you see, like, it's suburban house mom and, like, businesswoman and cool alt chick and get Tessa, you know, and all of them, I thought that was a cool gathering. And while it's not anything that we see in the novel, this is one of those moments where I could give the TV writer a Sway to do something interesting visually, but they just don't do a whole lot with it, honestly. It ends up being oh, she's sort of possessed and now she's gonna what? She's gonna throw up the Emerald.

Ashley: Yep. Yep. I I I you and I I didn't love this. I thought it was, you know, we brought all these women into the space presumably to be part of the scene, and then they all just kind of stand there. There's really not much going on for this for all of these, you know, presumably of a varying strength switches of the family. And and does this, you know, like I I think it's kinda convoluted the whole concept of the thirteenth witch too because it's like, well, do you just need thirteen witches in a room? Like, what? Or

Joel: does

Ashley: it have to be this thirteenth witch? And now it is tested the fourteenth witch. And now have we gone past our thirteenth witch for our prophecy or whatever the bullshit is? I don't know.

Joel: So so this is what that's sort of what Tessa tried to not Tessa, Stella. Excuse me. The TV main fairs are screwing with the book brand fairs for me. Stella tried to do this in her time as the designate. Right? She gathered all the powerful members of the family.

Ashley: Oh, that is true. Yeah.

Joel: Absolutely. Spiritual you know, gifted people that she knew, and she tried to bring Lasher through. And we see, by the way, in this episode, we do see some of the canisters where it's like a head here and a hand there and sort of thing. And so you get a hint at some of those experiments that have happened in the past, this is Julian's workshop supposedly

Ashley: -- Right. -- the

Joel: the TV universe, but still well, and I will say we gotta mention a Julian diary. Right? Which is a big thing that happens in the in the novels as well. The fact that they've bastardized it here by making it, like, part of his play to get the power of the family bothers me a little bit, but but I I wouldn't have reminded this gathering. I sort of like that visually, but you're right. You've got all of these women who you imagine are powerful, interesting characters in their own right. And yet, the only ones that even speak or Tessa Dolly and Tessa's mother and Drake. They all have, like, one line each basically, you know. And then everybody chanced together. I yeah. It's just underwhelming. And then also for the big magical moments, effectively, to be the same thing in reverse that we saw the Tallahasco do last week with the dagger. Right? The way Right. With the damn tag. Your own body.

Ashley: Yes.

Joel: Right. So this is basically just that except taking something back. And so I'm like, this isn't even something special for the Mayfair's. Like, why not have Lascher be more involved in it directly? Why not why not have Lascher literally, you know, joint listen. This is TV. We're making sexy TV. Right? Why not have Lasher fuck Rowan and and and Tessa? And that'd be how it transfers? Like, genuinely. Well, I mean, you could. The other I'm making a better show. I'm making a better show. Ashley, you and me are just We're just gonna start writing our own show.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. We're fucking doing it. We're sending them scripts as we speak. Oh, shit. I got off track. I can't remember what I was gonna say. What were we just saying?

Joel: Talk about the transference. We were talking I I said, you know, when I have it, make it a threesome.

Ashley: Be it was before that, the threesome's what? Threesome. What? Threesome. Threesome is always to throw you off. You're not expecting

Joel: them.

Ashley: Shit.

Joel: All the Yeah. That's a position. No one no one spend a little transition.

Ashley: No one expects a surprise to me. So yeah. Shit. I'll think of it in a second. I'm sure it'll come back to me.

Joel: Well, we were talking about that that they used the the same Tallamaska trick. Basically, they pulled the dagger through

Joel: bodies

Ashley: and now they've pulled the

Joel: the emerald.

Ashley: Yes. So even the reveal of the two Even the two reveals, if you had flipped them would have been better storytelling. To me, it would be much more interesting for us to realize, oh, fuck. That that necklace is not in SIP's hands anymore. And then to go to back to the witches and have it be thrown up, I guess. There, I think that would have been even more interesting. Storytelling wise. I would have because, like, I already knew it was fucking gone. I knew it was I knew she had just thrown it up. I knew it wasn't gonna be in his hands when he opened his hands. You know? Like, it just you're you're given way

Joel: all your tricks,

Ashley: and your tricks are all repetitive.

Joel: Yeah. Which at this point, honestly, Ashley, like this, now we're impuging not only are we impuging the show runners and the writers and the actors. We're impugning the editor at this point too. Like, put those Ah. Put those scenes in reverse order.

Ashley: Yeah. Fucking come on now. Yeah. I I I mean, I don't we have been so patient and willing to accept this new information as it is, especially since we were so willing to go along with whatever the show runners of interview were giving us. But now I realized that if they had really fucked that up, we would be just as pissed if not more so than we are now.

Joel: Oh. Oh. Ashley. We would have burned the place down. Honestly -- Yeah. -- we were seriously riding

Joel: episode

Joel: five with the violence. Right? There's this mass of violent violence between or from L'Estat to Louis that doesn't take place in the books. And we bent over backwards trying to man, I don't know. I don't know how they're gonna justify it. I really don't know.

Ashley: Yeah. It's a unreliable narrator now.

Joel: It's sort of a sore spot. Yeah. I mean, honestly, I think they've still got a I think they've still got a case to build. I think they've they're not there yet, but overall, the quality of that show was so high And there are so many pieces, so many, you know, core parts of those characters and that plot line that have been brought to screen there It was a very satisfying experience even for a fairly booked purist. Here -- Yeah. -- we're not booked purist. We were open till big swings. And what they've given us instead is just largely unsatisfying TV. Okay. Let's not this thing up, though, because this ending was even here's the one time, I will say, they didn't give us an interesting ending. I'm sorry, I cut you off. Go ahead.

Ashley: No. No. I was just gonna say, also, this is this is I'm starting to feel like they really fucked up getting combining Michael and Aaron because it complete like, Rowan doesn't have anyone. But SiP, and I don't buy that relationship yet. You know what I mean? And with the whole thing with Aaron is that he's the super smart, knowledgeable older man. He's a safe person to be with. He knows the truth about the family. He knows what kind of danger she's in. What kind of danger Michael's in. And so because of that, she has somebody on her side that she can one hundred percent trust that also is, like, in on the game, that's in on the secrets, that's in on the family, you know. And and not having that, outside of the sex partner is like is really a loss, I think. I think it's really I don't think they really thought that through because you're really missing a really important support character who is is is well constructed in the in the book itself. I just think it's a bummer, man, and I think it hurts Rowan, it makes her less relatable because there's no one there relating to her.

Joel: Well, they could've they could've even just kept more of either of those characters or or both, definitely. But there's so little of Michael, so little of Aaron in Cyprian that, yeah, he's effectively only warming her bed. And as we've said, he's not even playing a good protector. He hasn't really increased her knowledge of the Mayfair family or her powers or the Tallamasko or the, you know, paranormal universe at large. Like, what is his role here other than, again, just like Rowan, to be sort of battered around by the events that the show runner keeps coming up with, you know?

Ashley: Right.

Joel: It's a mess. Right. So, Tessa, Tessa does become the new designee of the family. She gets Lascher's favor. She is claimed or at least that's what the ceremony tells us and she takes

Ashley: That's what the Russians would have us believe.

Joel: Goes upstairs to look in the mirror. Yeah. Right. Right. Although, She calls to Lasher, and we don't see Lasher come to her. Then We fast forward a little bit, and she apparently can't wait. For Rowan to do anything about it. She can't wait to talk to uncle Cortland and use the power of the family to do anything about it. Is she called on Rowan to do herself when Rowan was the designee. She decides that designee of the Mayfair family. She's gonna walk off into the woods and meet her new internet boyfriend who has Deidre's heart. What the fuck is this girl thinking?

Ashley: Yeah, she's not because she's not smart. And also, this guy's just carried around this fucking Igloo ice chest with a jarred heart in it like it's a normal thing and fine.

Joel: I I love, by the way, they let the glamour work on him, which were, like, oh, okay. I I was worried for her, and then I'm, like, oh, well, she's glamour herself

Ashley: in you know,

Joel: previously in the episode, she'd made a big deal about the fact that she doesn't like her glamour. Her glamour is a terrible power. But no, they knew that she was gonna do that. This is all a trap. There's a bunch of men around her and she's she's captured now as she's in a cage at the end of the episode calling for Lascher to come and save her which she seemingly won't do. But like I don't know, man. I mean, Honestly, she comes to Rowan in this episode and says, there are these witch hunters. We've gotta do something about it. We've gotta run

Joel: together.

Joel: Then she gets the power of the family and doesn't even mention it to the

Ashley: elders. There's

Joel: There's a room full of witches. She

Ashley: doesn't drink full of witches. Yeah. It's ridiculous. It's stupid. It's just you're again, you are not you In this same episode, you established that that character thought that something needed to be done and that here are the ways we could get something done with it. And she does none of that. It walks right into the most obvious trap that anyone has ever fallen into.

Joel: Yeah. Right. This and again, we wanna talk about basic cable. This is at least premium cable. This reminded me very much of the Church of the Sun or whatever from True Blood with with the the Texas vampire killers where they would, you know, light traps for vamps or whatever. This seems like that.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. It's yeah. The absurdity of it all is just is just kinda mind blowing. And, yeah, I don't I wasn't bothered by this by this, like, little plot twist with the whole modern day witch hunters at first because it was like, well, I mean, maybe they are trying to pull in that, you know, that supernatural audience, that that audience that enjoys, you know, that vampire diaries, and that kind of show, you know, Like, maybe they're just trying to pull in some of those fans and I get that, but it's just like, for for now, we've got, what, two episodes left. And that's all we're gonna be doing is dealing with the fallout of this stupid shit for the next two episodes. So it has to be And I did not. And it can't just be a little sideplot. It has to be something that matters. Otherwise, why would you waste this much time on your eight of your eight episode season on it?

Joel: Oh, yeah. It's absolutely gonna be central to the plotline moving forward. I I did not think about watching the episode. I not think about this impact, but I read it in our comments, and I think they're absolutely right. This is dangerous ground to tread on too. First and foremost, what they're doing here, the show runners clearly you're tying, like, the men's rights activist movement to

Ashley: Right. They have a very insult to Which

Joel: numbers, basically. And they're I think they're trying to say, look how ridiculous. Right? These these men are as silly as witch hunters of, you know, generations past. But here's the deal. Which hundreds of generations passed killed a lot of women? You know, thousands and thousands of women across Europe during the fifteen hundreds and sixteen hundreds. And today, we don't have people roaming town to town and burning women What we do have though, Ashley, is active attempts all across our country at state level and federal level to expunge from existence, trans, and gay people. That's an active thing that is happening right now. And to me, playing with the idea of these these in cells, these men's rights activists, these you know, anti feminist sort of tropes playing around with that in the context of which burnings and which drownings and things like this. It's dangerous fucking territory that we are not even begun to remove ourselves from. You know, in our, like, recent past. So I had not really considered that, but it's absolutely true. These show runners got to land this in a way. That understands that and that I mean, I honestly this is done. Right? This season's all done. I don't know what I'm appealing to them at this point for. But moving forward, AMC's gotta think about this. And the way that you address these these characters and these sort of storylines, you've got to be more sensitive with it. They did a good job with the question of race in the interview with the Vampire Series, and we praise them for it. We're gonna challenge you here for it when you do it poorly.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah, I I do think that there's a lot to be said for that. And also, like, there's in in in the society today, particularly in our country, in the US, their violence against women is a huge issue, and it does affect our transistors more than than our sisters. And that's something we do need to acknowledge and and we do need to be aware of. And we do need to speak up for the number of women that are killed by intimate partners is astounding. Homicide is one of the leading causes of death among pregnant women. Like, you know, like, I don't really know that bringing this bringing something up that didn't exist in the storyline to be more violent against women is the best or the most fun way to go with a storyline. I just think there's already so much of that shit. And and it's everywhere. And and and and for once it really wasn't in this book. You know, this wasn't part of the book aside from the, you know, from in the past story lines. You know, and even though it was once Deborah has done. We're really not dealing with that anymore. So it's just I don't know. It's like, what a weird what a weird what a weird choice to make. When I mean, I guess, maybe you're wanting to show it, but, god, we see enough of it. We see enough of it every day. We see it in our ladies see it in their damn DM's. You know, like, fuck. Anyway, I just don't, like, don't do it unless you're gonna really tell a good story. Don't do it unless you mean it. Don't do it unless it's gonna you're gonna, like you said, land it, and they really are gonna have to for me with this.

Joel: Yes. Yes. I agree. I agree. Meanwhile, our episode ends with, and here's what I mean when I say, I I have praised the show in the past. They they do really have great open up episodes with this with the Scottish flashbacks. And they have

Ashley: The endings have been really bold. Point.

Joel: They've had pretty good endings of episodes. This one this one to me, I did not care for. Effectively, we get Ciprian lost in time here. And I thought to myself like, uh-oh. Oh, boy. It's it's It's Sam Beckett. Right? You know, he's gonna he's gonna flash to the Mayfair family now. Except except that's the thing too, Ashley. We know he's not. He's not gonna flash through the Mayfair family because we've already been told by the show runners and IMDB and everybody that the only part of the history we're gonna see is Suzanne. So all we're gonna do here well, probably what we're gonna do here is Ciprian's just gonna wake up in the next episode, and we're not even gonna see it. And

Ashley: there's gonna be no explanation.

Joel: Walking around and be like, you guys remember You guys remember that time when I was lost in time for a while. Boy, that was crazy. That's totally resolved itself off screen.

Ashley: Yeah. Fuck.

Joel: Anyway, y'all, folks, listen. If you have abandoned ship, I promise you we will let you know when and if any interview with the vampire characters crossover. And if so, I'm willing to bet money that there will be a clip of that up on YouTube within about thirty minutes anyway. So you might not even have to to Dane to watch the episode just for the crossover character too. Get your clip. We are gonna give you a little bit more yeah. Right. We're gonna give you a little bit more synopsis from now on like we did in this episode and try to let you know exactly what been along the way. But yeah, man. I understand everybody's frustration with it. And as you've heard in this episode, Ashley and I share it. This is a wonderful story at its heart. That's the reason why Ashley and I have both read it so many times over the years. Love to talk about these stories and we're looking forward to this series with so much anticipation. They have not done that. They've not brought us any of that story. There is still hope that there can be a good story here even with bad foundings and and bad beginnings. Right. I I like to go back. The first season of The Walking Dead was pretty good. Second, third season were sort of lame, and then they found their footing. And then they went off the rails again and to hear fans that are watching the latest seasons. They got a new show runner for the last three or four and they're back on track to a very satisfying conclusion apparently this last season. I that's what we can get here. Right? Sure. Subs and flows, especially ones with a long life. AMC wants a long lifespan for these shows. So this is not a foregone conclusion. We do have an investment in the future of this series as it goes. And, actually, or I am or or Ashley and I are both invested in it because we're gonna keep talking about all this stuff. Folks, we love -- Sure. -- seeing Rice's work, and we love the immortal universe, and we want more of it. So The good thing

Ashley: is that even if it pisses me off. For

Joel: all of it. This was some of the ugly though. Let's hope for let's hope for better next week. Yeah.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're gonna watch it even if we're even if we're mad about it. It's fine.

Joel: It's fine.

Joel: Alright. Well, we we were late arriving this week, so it'll be a faster turnaround for us. As we get ready for episode seven. Come back and join us then. Whether you've watched it or not, we'll keep you up to date. Yeah. We'll watch it so you don't have to. This corner of That's right. We'll provide that service for

Joel: you.

Ashley: Taking one for the team. And, Joe,

Joel: we have been your hosts. Always. Always taking one for the team. Until then, we've been your host. I'm Joel.

Ashley: I'm Ashley.

Joel: And we are the articulate coven.

Joel: Thanks for listening to the Articulate Cove. You can join our community on Facebook by following the links in the show notes or searching for articulate coven on Facebook. You can subscribe to the show in Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or at articulatecoven dot com. And share us with your An Rice loving friends.