NONE OF THAT is Onscreen - Ashley and Joel Discuss Tessa S1E7 of The Mayfair Witches on AMC and AMC+

NONE OF THAT is Onscreen - Ashley and Joel Discuss Tess S1E7 of The Mayfair Witches on AMC and AMC+

VO: The Articulate Coven is the original unofficial podcast and fan community for Anne Rice's interview with the vampire and Anne Rice's immortal universe from AMC and AMC Plus. Welcome to

Joel: the Articulate Cove and we are your hosts. I'm Joel.

Ashley: I'm Ashley.

Joel: And we are the Articulate Cove and We are the unofficial fan podcast and community for Anne Rice's and Moto Universe is brought to us by AMC and AMC Plus, but we also cover the books Right now, we're wrapping up our coverage of An Rise's Mayfair, which is the first season, is about to finish this week on AMC Plus, and it'll drop Sunday night on AMC. We are here tonight to discuss episode seven, Tessa, the name of this one. Listen. I I here, I'm gonna start this episode off on a positive note. It is Mardi Gras as we record this tonight. Hey, it sure is. I record from Louisiana. Yeah. It's Mardi Gras here. We the family and I got to enjoy a parade on Sunday in the Highland area in Shreveport, which is one of the best parades in the North parts of the of the state. I really enjoyed the sweet time. We always do. And, yeah, you know, I was reminded of the lovely ardi Gras seen in the finale of interview with the Vampire from earlier this year with some posts from AMC. So I'm in a good mood today regardless of this opposite we're gonna talk about. And the

Ashley: fact that we're about to

Joel: wrap this thing up, the other thing that I'm in

Joel: a good mood about Ashley, I was reminded, again, we're gonna start with positivity here. I was reminded we are only eight days away from the new season of the Mandalorian. Oh, well, hell, yes, that's something all of God's children can

Ashley: look forward to.

Joel: That's right. That's right. Magic magic grow goo babies. I can be excited. Oh,

Ashley: I can't wait. These magic

Joel: witch is I don't know I don't know how excited we're gonna be about this, but we are gonna dive into it. And folks, spoilers ahead, one of the things that we have tried to start doing through the coverage of Mayfair, which is we are trying to do a little bit more of a recap of the episode itself as we go through our discussion instead of just talking about our thoughts on the episode. Trying to tell you what happened in case you've bounced off of this one. I know some of our listeners have definitely given up on Rowan and crew, but we forge ahead and we begin this evening and this episode in Lascher's memories as a Ciprian was lost to time in the past. Ashley, we talked about it last week. We were honestly, I was sort of surprised that we got resolution to this. So much of this season has taught us to expect perhaps that this would all happen off screen and

Ashley: say this is fine. Yeah.

Joel: But no. He's he's still lost in in Lascher's memories and honestly, this is the first time that they've sort of soured the Suzanne storyline, and they did it by side lining Suzanne. Beautiful story still. The cinematography in Scotland is cool, but the fact that this this character we've been following through all these flashbacks, is now literally like a figment of Lascher's imagination used as a a ploy to bring in Ciprian. Although I will say, as the sister brings him into the cabin to start this whole thing before he gets locked in there with Lascher, I thought for a second they were going to have Ciprian play the Peter von Aebel's role and actually be the patriarch that starts the Mayfair family. I thought that's So why would you

Ashley: think they would do anything that's in the book? Don't be absurd.

Joel: I don't I mean, I I thought honestly thought I

Ashley: mean, now that if you're gonna do something

Joel: I mean, that would be a big departure. Right? And nobody

Ashley: can look at something

Joel: like this. And Yeah. But I mean, but it would be interesting at least to tie those two things together. And here again, one of our Facebook community actually posted earlier today, and I haven't gone and read any other comments. I don't know what the conversation has been about this. But somebody said, like, I hear a lot of people are unhappy with the show. What would you have done instead? And it's so funny because, Ashley, I never do that sort of thing. I understand how hard it is to write any sort of drama for the stage, for the screen, you know, for for movie or TV. And and I don't presume to know better than than producers and writers do generally. But very honestly, that prompt today has sent me in about seventeen different directions. Our conversation last week was sort of the same way. And I've thought to myself so many times, there's honestly something quite decent in what they were trying to do here. Making this more of a matriarchical story, making it more about actual paganism or or wickin practices in the true history of witchcraft as as it has happened in human history. All of those things could be interesting. Changing the race of the major male character. Could have been interesting as it was an interview with the vampire's adaptation. That's just not what they've done here. Even the the changes that they made with Tessa and and my complaints there these could have been interesting stories. It just hasn't played out that way. And I'm hopeful that in a season two, which is coming, there will be more satisfying storylines to come. I'm still I'm not I'm not sour on this entire enterprise, but I am struggling to find what they were trying to do and why people with as much pedigree as a lot of the people behind the show have have failed so miserably at this one in particular. I I don't know. And it starts right here at the beginning. With with this the you have this Ciprian lost in time, Lascher's playing with him, and it

Ashley: goes nowhere. Yeah. No. It goes absolutely nowhere, which is exactly how I feel about most of, like, the energy. They'll build up energy and then just drop it. It's like just like every rule of of like theater and storytelling I've ever been taught. They're breaking it. It's like sitting down in the middle of a really heightened scene and just letting the energy fall out of your ass. You know, it's just it's so strange to me. It's it's this what feels like, kind of sputtering. Like, you can't quite get your get your manual transmission and gear up the hill with this with this one. It's just it's really strange. And if I I've really tried to this past week really think about it in a better mindset of, like, just completely divorcing myself from the from the source material as much as humanly possible. You know? And, like, well, what would I how would I act if I how would I think of this if if I didn't know anything about this book. If I didn't know anything about these stories or these characters, how would I feel about this? Show. And I think I would still have a lot of the same complaints about about Rowan and about about how that character presents herself. I think it would have a lot of complaints about being confused about the relationships within the family. Like, these these first few scenes are just mind boggling to me and I'm so, like and there were things I really like that that's the other thing. There's parts in there like, I totally you totally catch catch Tessa's mom throwing herself like a fake lasher party at her house. I guess she stayed up drinking champagne and eating cake with fake rose petals, you know, like, there's some really cool stuff in there, but it's just it's like, there's not enough of that to keep me excited about about what's next. You know?

Joel: Oh my god. Ashley, I didn't even consider the fact that that was all fake, because Lascher is not around. Lascher is not with Rowan. Lascher clearly wasn't hanging out with with with Tessa's mom.

Ashley: Rowan picks up that rose petal. She picks up that rose petal, and she's pressing it between her fingers. And you can tell it's a fake rose petal. You know. And so that's how I mean, that may not be what they were intending, but that's totally how I took it. I was like, she's throwing herself a fake littleasher party since her daughter won her daughter

Joel: wouldn't cry. Absolutely absolutely right. And like honestly, you could have had a forty five second scene before Rowan gets there with the mom and made that point and you you get this whole inner life in one minute, you could have gotten that. With you where you go, oh, this woman dreamed of being the designee her entire life. Like, was never in line for it. Wouldn't gonna happen for her --

Ashley: Right. -- but

Joel: she's always sort of wanted it. Her daughter's got a little power and now she's living vicariously through her. This this is interesting. But again, none of that on the screen, friend. No. We don't

Ashley: see our

Joel: cat actors in this show.

Ashley: I have to deduce it instead of being shown.

Joel: There are talented people behind the camera. There are talented people in the writer's room and the executive producers. I looked I didn't know Ashford is the other co creator who finally spoke this week on the official podcast, by the way. But I I wasn't familiar with either of these women's work. However, if you go back and look, Masters of Sex was a very popular series, award winning series. Lots of people loved it. Most of the fans that I've talked to said it kinda goes off the rails in the end. Less satisfying conclusion, but still very, very good stuff in the beginning. Same thing with the Pacific. Another movie another show with with these women tied to it. And tons of awards, lots of praise for that series. Everybody that's seen it says, oh, it's so great. You gotta get into the Pacific. Really, really good stuff. I I don't know what's going wrong here. I mean, other than a lack of interest or knowledge of the source material, although there again in the official podcast this week, Not spalding. The other co creator, I just said her name Ashford, I think is her last name. Right. She mentioned that she met Anne twenty some odd years ago when they were supposed to be working on a a a a TV project together, an original TV project, and that didn't go anywhere, but she's been a fan of Anne's work ever since and had read I think like at least one of the books beforehand, talked about how Anne was writing these novels at the time in that first street house? I don't know, man. I don't I don't know where we're going here, but from the top to the bottom, it just everything that could have happened is, like, in between the margins and all of the things that they put on screen or most of the things that they put on screen seem like waste of time or misdirections or what are you doing here? I I wanna start right there though in that scene with Tesla's mother and sister, which by the way, I've seen a lot of speculation on our Facebook group and the Discord group people talking about, which by the way, there are links in the show notes. If you're a Facebook user, Check out our Facebook community. If you're not a Facebook user, our Discord group is great. Lots of in-depth conversation about these shows and the books behind them. Lots of speculation that Tessa's younger sister, who is Red Head, by the way, that that is actually Mona. And we're gonna get Tessa with sort of a misdirect and especially with the results of this episode that we're gonna get Mona's story eventually down the line. Here's the deal. She's not named in the episode, but the recaps that I've read have her listed as Daphne. That character is Daphne played by Abercrombie.

Ashley: So again, totally

Joel: totally created character that ain't our Mona either. I thought this was we joked about it being a cousin, Bobby's situation. Yeah.

Joel: I

Ashley: just said interesting. Like, it's interesting. Like, I really meant that. I mean Interesting. What an interesting choice to introduce yet another character that doesn't exist in this world while

Joel: you hardly misshand the characters that too. Yay. Yes. Yes. Like, that is that is genuinely interesting. It's like I I talked to somebody I finished watching Black Adam last night, the the the the Joanne Johnson movie. Uh-huh.

Ashley: And I was

Joel: talking to somebody about it today, and I'm like, it's fascinating to think about the massive amount of money that Warner Brothers let them waste just basically to keep Dwayne Johnson friendly with them. Like that, it is it's such a pure ego project, particularly like the there's a post credit sequence that now is not connected to anything and never will be. And it turns out Warner Bros. Knew that when they let him film it. But they

Joel: just

Joel: -- My God. -- paid what? Five million dollars, ten million dollars to film that post credit sequence. Just just grow to check and burn the money up. I don't know. Anyway, corporations are bizarre. This is another example of a big corporation that is desperate for, like, AMC is making budget cuts left and right. And yet here, they've spent fairly good money on this project and they're going they're double down. They're going for a second season. I hope they figure it out and re and write the ship. I've got I've got faith in the people at the very top I've got faith in the source material, but please stop doing things like inventing characters. Just just tell the just tell the story actually. Just tell the story. Alright. I mean So So, Alicia, Tessa's mom and sister, neither one of them are freaked out that that Tessa is not home. Tessa is a party girl as we already know. So she's just hanging out with friends, I'm sure. Rowan insists that they've got to find her and then get sick because she's got morning sickness. So she has to go throw up in their bathrooms.

Ashley: Yes. In the in the ten minutes that she's known magically that she's pregnant, she now has morning thickness. Oh, science. Okay.

Joel: If if they had followed any of the book, again, we could forgive this. Right? Because in the book, Rowan's pregnancy is incredibly accelerated because of the magical nature of that pregnancy. Here though, we've gotten no indication of what lashers in game is, or that lasher is even did to this. Lots of speculation from fans about, oh, maybe it's Lascher's baby, not Ciprian's baby. But like the show hasn't given us any of that. No. That may be where they go. That like,

Joel: it may be that and and later, some things happen in episode that maybe makes me think this is where they're going, I guess. But the fact that Rowan is now pregnant and calls Lasher back into her at the end of this episode, you could make a leap of of, you know, logic, I guess, again based on the books and where all of that goes. Of what's gonna happen. But the show hasn't spent any time building this up. Meanwhile, they've got one episode left and this entire witch hunter plot line that has nothing to do with the thrust of our major characters, our primary characters, Lasher, Ciprian, Rowan, like, What the hell, man? I I don't know how they're gonna land this plane, but they're gonna do it in a in one more episode. It's clear now that this is the end of the first book. We're gonna get future storylines. And theoretically, we're gonna get some more back story of the May Fairs, hopefully, in future seasons. But but The witching hour is about to be done.

Ashley: Which is hilarious because there's been such little such little action from the actual witching hour that house is still a mess We've not cleaned up anything. She's not even part of the family. She doesn't they're not treating her like they want her to be part of the family. She's not acting like she wants anything to do with them either. And this whole idea of like claiming her claiming her her place of this prophecy. It's just like, what the actual fuck is happening? And why is the telemasca involved in it? Like, what? Why why? It I when I am I'm trying not to get too far ahead of of of our of our chat because I know we wanna do some recapage. But my god, like, some of these these reveals in this episode were so, like, not number one, not exciting. Number two, not a surprise, or three, completely don't make any sense in the realm of this world that we live in and that we have to continue to live in because our vampires are gonna cross over and dancing it. Ugh.

Joel: Oh my goodness. Yes. Yes. Yeah. No. It's this is a very very messy pool that we've now stepped into. So so the next scene, we we move away from Rowan, which by the way, the yes. Rowan does have we've skipped it. I suppose Rowan does have the revelation that she's pregnant. She gets a vision into her own body. One assumes and and sees that she's conceived, and then immediately tries to get in touch with Ciprian or Ciprian still lost passed.

Joel: He's

Ashley: lost to the memory.

Joel: Yeah. Right. So finally, we get caught up with Tesla. At the end of last episode test has gotten, you know, captured in the woods by our creeper witch hunters. And now here she has locked up like Black Snake Moon I

Ashley: do wanna give

Ashley: alright. I

Ashley: do wanna give the the the makeup the makeup folks a shout out this. She looks like shit, man. She looks like she has been through it. She looks her mascara is everywhere. She looks real. Like, she's like she's been through some shit, so so kudos there.

Joel: So here's my problem though, Ashley. This this entire sequence is just straight up sexualized. In this show. It was startling to me. Hang on. I wanna go to the actual note that I wrote down. I said, what is this show doing? They sexualized the creepy morgue guy taking the rag out of Tessa's mouth even.

Ashley: Yeah.

Joel: They linger on their mouths. They linger on drops of sweat. They you know, they do the fade in when I started in Colorado. They do the fade in when Tessa does the glamour thing. And it's like the the softwash filter on the cameras. I like, all of it is is played with like a leering eye, and I just can't imagine women being at the top of this, being in charge and thinking that this is what anybody wants. Like, I don't get it, man.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. I I yeah. I mean, I agree with you on that. It I do think it's well, and and then it gets problematic in that, like, you know, we're gonna focus in on this guy and the imperfections on his face, and she's gonna lie to him about or she's gonna you know, she's It's all very I don't I don't enjoy I don't enjoy her magic. I've got to say it's not, you know, I I don't enjoy that. I think it's all very very strange and and and and it it's IKE. It all just feels real IKE. And it's also, like, we're supposed to You just got this for this guy. And, like, creeped out by this guy or, like, what I'm you know, like, it just the whole thing, but the whole fucking that's one of the part of the problems, Joel, is whole fucking thing is unnecessary. This whole plot line is unnecessary. We're gonna spend thirty fucking minutes in this warehouse for no good reason. It's like a fucking everybody getting together to talk about why they hate. Fucking I don't know. Oh, it took me back to that scene, and I can't remember if it was a fucking Spider Man. Oh, it's the hating Iron Man. Everybody hating Iron Man. And and that Spider and and everyone's, like, together and working together with the vulture because they all fucking hate Iron Man. And that's how this felt to me, which like, that's how this whole fucking scene plays out to me. It's like, oh oh, here's our grievances. This is how the Mayfair's have done us wrong, and we hate the Mafairs. And also, like, we're worth looking for proof of witches. Like, why why is that a fucking thing? Like, you need proof of of witches? It's twenty twenty three. Like, what the fuck are you even doing with your video cameras? I don't understand what their endgame is.

Joel: Like, this in higher thing. Well, and and it's because none of it makes any sense. They the the show runners wanted to tell this story about, like, in cells and men rights activists and that stuff like we talked about last week. But they oh, the only way they could figure out to bolt that onto this was making it witch hunters. None of it makes any sense. The the Ashford said in the official podcast this week that she really got interested in this idea she and spalding when they looked at the way that certain groups reacted to Hillary Clinton's presidency. And when they reacted to Kamala Harris' candidacy as vice president. And and I thought, how can you be so obtuse. To to first of all, tie those people you say, oh, some people lots of people called those those women bitches, some even called them witches, which is absolutely true. I've heard Hillary Clinton call to witch. I've heard Kamala Harris call to witch. Absolutely. But how can you think, okay, great. Let's take that and run with that as a storytelling feature. And the way that we're gonna showcase that and the falseness of that is we're gonna have a group that hurl these sorts of insults and allegations at a group of women. And these group of women are a family of powerful psychics who each have a magical power and a familiar spirit which has enriched them over generations and generations. Oh, oh, we're gonna make the witch hunters right?

Ashley: Yeah. It's it's not a

Joel: problem. Also we're gonna make the May Fairs the one percent to I mean, they are in the books. Right? This they're a they're a family that's a corporation on their own. They're like the Waltons. We've talked about that before. But here, the scene that they show us is two of the witch hunters were radicalized. How? Because they they were impacted by the paranormal? No. Because their daughter or son fell to the assault. Oh, no. They were radicalized because they lost their job at Mayfair Auto Parts. Right. Got downsized.

Ashley: Oh, no. Friend.

Joel: Fucking Ironman. In what sequence of events? In what sequence of events, did you lose your job at the auto parts company and then decide also the people who you used to work for for seventeen years. We're family full of intergenerational witches.

Ashley: Yeah.

Joel: Yeah. What does the fucking like? How does any of that makes None of this makes any sense. None of it makes any sense. None of it makes any sense.

Ashley: No, it does. None of it makes any damn sense. And I don't I don't like, how is it gonna get better in this next episode when they're gonna run through the last eight hundred pages of a book they haven't even talked about.

Joel: And Ashley, they did it again too. They did it again. We talked last week about how there's a room full of witches and they're all crying about what they're gonna do about the lost tesa. Here, her mother chides Rowan because she didn't do anything with Lascher. And I'm like, you're standing in a room full of powerful witches, like, why don't any of you do anything about it? Right. They need to sign Tessa. So what does this family full of psychics and witches do? They bring it out of my

Ashley: help, Ashley. Bring it a man. Let's bring a man in to solve her fucking problem, lady. Let's bring in the man because we can't get by without one. I mean,

Joel: the man had style, at least, but like, again, how is any of this women empowerment? How has any of this women first or women central? Like, Rowan is not centered in any of this? Alicia is not centered in any of this. Dolly Jean. You've got this great black matriarch played by an excellent actor by the way. Why not bring her into the center of things and have her be the one that can bring the whole family together. And solve the problem. You know? But no, we've gotta cry about Lascher on the one hand and bring in outside help on the other. They didn't even call this due to Mayfair. Like, he's not like some he's not like Julian's great grandson if as far as we but again, in this universe, Julian didn't really have power he bargained for

Ashley: Right. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. How also Lucy Gucci everybody is with fucking Lasher? Like, everybody is on this fucking first name basis with Lascher.

Joel: Oh, man.

Ashley: That's so I

Joel: hadn't even had to speak.

Ashley: But, like, everybody's constantly talking about him, like, they all know him, they all know what he does, they all know he's around, they all expect him to be doing lachery things You know, like, it's so strange. It's

Joel: not it's not like they don't get it either. Right? Because in the first episode, they do a great job. Every several different people refer to him or the man in episode one.

Ashley: The man. Yeah.

Joel: Which is however literally everyone in the family refers to him as the man except the designee basically everyone in the family refers to the man in the book. Everyone outside the

Ashley: family. Even at Coral, the bank. Yes. That's

Ashley: how he is referred to even when they're talking like, if they're talking amongst themselves, selves about him. They don't call him Lasher. You know, like, that's so It's just and I know that that doesn't matter in the whole film of the storytelling, it doesn't matter. But when I'm this fucking annoyed about these fucking insell witch hunters and and etcetera bullshit, This is just one more thing that pushes me over the edge about this.

Joel: Okay. Then we're revealed when when when when SIPRIAN finally comes back to to the world, which by the way, effectively again like a very similar thing to what we've already seen several times with this magic. It's it's like another version of being pulled through time and space kinda deal. Whatever

Ashley: or I'm

Joel: fine with it. He's finally back in our storyline. And now he's back with the telemasco, oh my gosh, guys, do you know last year's gonna do something crazy? Stuff's going down. And here's our

Joel: our

Joel: our non British boss. Oh, supreme, you've been working so hard. Why don't you come with me? I've got just the place for you. Reveal, we're

Ashley: there too.

Ashley: I'm working with some messers.

Joel: First it was all mad. I was like, so you're telling me, like, Cortland Mayfair just owns the Tallamaska. This is the way this works. However, and again, maybe I'm just I'm looking for positive stones under under Moss where there aren't any, but let's assume that they've got a direction for this. Two two things come to mind. First of all, in the later in the later books of of this series, and and the Tau TauTO's book, especially, there's a group of the Tallamaska who is sort of nefarious and and but it's like a small sect. And they've got their own sort of plans and and ends. The other thing that I'll say without spoiling anything specifically, in the later vampire Chronicles books, we get some backstory on the Tallamasca. And some of what we hear in those books and some of what we come to understand in those books would make it sort of more understandable and interesting and good storytelling possibilities could come out of it. Yes. There was a group of the Tallamaska who were very focused on, and this is what I'm hoping is happening here. I hope this group is not so much aligned with Cortland as they are their me, their in goal also happens to be Cortland's in goal, which I hope is Lascher's incarnation. I think -- Right. -- and for whatever reason, has been working towards that. And I think this group in the Tallamasca is not really a fan of Cortland. They're not his allies or or lackeys is that they want to see Lasher incarnated.

Ashley: Why? Why? Well, why? Well,

Joel: why? Okay. Why Joel Why? There are it's not gonna happen in the show. I don't really have I don't really have hope that they're gonna do it. But there are some things in the book that you could sort of backfill and retroactively connect and be like, well, this reason and this thing connect. And so you this could be a hint at some things that aren't

Ashley: revealed to potential ins and later

Joel: books. I don't have faith -- very true. -- I don't have faith that they're gonna go there.

Ashley: Yeah. Mean, I I you are right. And and it does kind of that does play into my whole idea of this, like, little sect of the Tallahassee being quite a shit show because they clearly are quite a shit show. So it kinda plays into that as far as, like, as the way I see it. So I could kind I could kind of see that, but still, it's just I don't understand why they would want to unleash this this thing that they don't understand, that they like, and and it seems like a really dangerous experiment to be a part of. You know what I mean? Like, okay. Well, let's let's really let's get this which knocked up and see what happens. You know, it's just like It just seems like a risky play to make on purpose for anybody. It's a risky play It's a risky thing that Rowan does at the end of the fucking witching hour. You know? Like, but even that makes sense, even that makes sense because you have some understanding of her character and what she thinks she's capable of, which are Rowan in this show would never be able to in a million years think she could do. So the next hour of our lives that we spend watching is gonna be a real fucking mind fuck, I think.

Joel: Oh, that it is absolutely gonna be that. I listen. The this show has not been good, but it has been surprising. And I think it's gonna continue to be that. Yeah. It's thing. Alright?

Ashley: It's got something.

Joel: So

Joel: so Cyprian is obviously incredibly mad about this this betrayal by the Tallamasca by his by his superiors, you know. But he's he's sort of stuck there and could do nothing about it. The line specifically from Albrecht, the his boss here, is that if if Rowan does what they think she's going to do, then she will fulfill an ancient prophecy and a new era will begin.

Ashley: Fuck. So so yeah.

Joel: I that's I mean,

Ashley: I think Jeez. It's coming back. What's happening?

Joel: Yeah. Yeah. Well but that's again, I don't like, are are the telltus even gonna be the telltus? Like, is is Lascher's actual origin gonna be easy?

Ashley: I don't think they're gonna

Ashley: happen. But I don't think that you can

Ashley: even remotely explain that story at this point. I'm like, I can't I mean, it's gonna they would even

Ashley: season to get

Joel: Season two is gonna have to get weird.

Ashley: Season two has to be -- Yeah. -- fucking weird.

Joel: Yeah. It's gonna be it's gonna have to be so strange.

Ashley: Get this What I really

Ashley: pissed off about is that this is made me wanna read Lascher, like, immediately. I started our model. And

Joel: I have thought the same thing. I'm

Ashley: like, I have a fucking read leisure and see if reading this again makes any of this make more fucking sense to me.

Joel: I just I honestly, I'm jealous to go spend time with Mona. You know, those the early chapters in Lascher are all about Mona and I'm honestly, there's a lot of about her seduction of Michael, which is a little I'm sure it's gonna be Iky now as my I I'm I also started Arman today as a matter of fact, I just started the audiobook of our mind. And those early chapters of our mind are very much him and David Talbot talking about how beautiful little boys are, and it is Super uncomfortable.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. It is. Yeah. It is.

Joel: I'm like, and and baby. You you had some issues, man. I don't know.

Ashley: She likes pushing the batteries there. Yeah.

Joel: She did. She did so much. And I know and especially with the character of of Arman, it it is all about his his own you know, mishandling the mistreatment, the abuse that he suffered in as more of life. And so I understand that those themes have to be brought into the book, but boy. She just parades it right out there and on Front Street. And it reminds me because I was thinking about reading Lascher. I know those early chapters of Lascher are aren't gonna be complicated when I read them now as a forty year old instead of a thirteen year old. Right. And that's the thing. It's a it's a totally different thing when a teenager is talking about romantic or sexual attraction to an adult when you're a teenager. But when you were the forty year old, it is

Ashley: very old. Thing.

Joel: I mean, I'm Michael's age. Yeah. I'm Michael's age now. It is not cool. It's not cool. Yeah.

Ashley: No. It's not cool. It's not cool at all. Oh. No. It's really nice. No. Wait.

Joel: Alright. Let's let's Let's finish this

Ashley: -- That's what's that's what's happening. -- scene

Joel: of this thing. So again, so you've got you've got Tessa. So first of all, they had her in the cage. And she's sexualized. They're taking the mask off and everything, talking to Crippo. Then they hang her up by her hands in the center of the warehouse. And she has the scene with with the the female witch hunter about how the Mayfair's or the evil one percenters and and, really, this is all about commerce. Then we're gonna lighter on fire there in the middle of the thing. And I'm like, let's just run out all the tropes. Right? You know what I

Ashley: mean? I honestly

Joel: expected someone to, like, cut her top off so that she'd be sitting there in a sports bra or something for the rest of this. But they never did they never went there on it at least.

Joel: But

Joel: they're getting this letter started.

Ashley: I really need some body Python esque comedy relief at this point.

Ashley: You know,

Joel: Well, to me, you got it. Well, I mean, you got it. When Rowan when Rowan marches in to save the day. So okay. Test is about to burn and suddenly one of our witch hunters as he's making his way to the fire with a with a tiki tour. Right? With the fucking tiki torch. He grabs his head and his nose starts bleeding and he falls to the ground. And then another one does. And then suddenly around a corner of boxes comes Rowan, not marching steadily, not having picked up a weapon of any kind, just walking towards them like she's walking through the mall, etcetera. I'm steadily. Psyche.

Ashley: Yes. Like, what is A little instead of I

Joel: mean, they turn her into a vigilante, but she's not covered one. Like, she

Ashley: Yes. Not walking in what she's doing at all. She's not walking in. Fucking Drew Barrymore at the age of whatever fire starter was more of a badass Rowan was in that scene.

Joel: Yeah. Listen, the new firefighter is terrible, and the little girl, because the razzies are a terrible organization.

Ashley: Oh, yes. Got nominated

Joel: for a razzie. But yeah, that little girl in the new fire starter brings so much more heat than Rowan brings in this scene. It is absurd. But I'm like, okay. Alright. She doesn't she doesn't wanna use this power. She's unsteady. She's not a killer. Then have her stay in the shadows and pick them off since she can kill them from a distance, and they don't know she's there yet. Yeah.

Ashley: They'll not like you so much into it.

Ashley: Gun and and and a freaking gunfire range

Joel: she stumbles into it. She frees Tessa, and I'm like, okay. Well, at least they're not gonna do that. But no, of course, Keith, our creeper from earlier, has a gun suddenly and shoots Tessa trying to kill Rowan. And and there she goes, she dies on the ground. Meanwhile, this sets Rowanoff and she screams the magic words as she calls Lash her down to her and that's the end of our episode. But like Spalding said in the in the after episode insider thing, she says that Rowan calling Lascher was her choosing them? She's choosing that. But listen, Lascher and the Mayfair's more broadly. This none of this is about vengeance. Lasher's goal is rebirth. Lasher's entire enterprise with the May Fairs is about the the salvation and continuation of his species. He falls in love with the Mafairs over the course of the centuries. Now, he is not human and his love is not our love, but he has genuine affection for these women in this family. The women meanwhile, none of them are vengeful, honestly. Other than maybe you could say Debra with when she

Ashley: kills a

Joel: witch hunter, You know, I mean, she calls Lasher down and vengeance there at the end. But but again, that's like the one scene that the family springs from. It's not the whole thing. Rowan in the books is never even when she kills. She's never really driven by like malice or vengeance it's it's always towards this goal. She knows that she has a power for literal biological change. She doesn't know until the very end that she's been engineered for it, right, for for centuries. But she she understands that she can do something for the human race that nobody else can do, and she is jealous of that ability, that ability to heal. It's why I was mad about them taking Rowan. May Mayfair medical away from her. It's why I'm mad about this honestly. This her choosing lasher in the end over vengeance and anger and, like, I'm going to kill these bad guys is just not what any of this is about. Bumps

Joel: me

Joel: out, man.

Ashley: Yeah. I mean You

Joel: know, spaulding spaulding made her witch hunters sympathetic losers. And she made her witches genuinely vengeful witches. Why? Like, what is your point?

Joel: I

Ashley: mean, it's well, I mean and surely, see is even even in Deborah's case, no. I mean, I was gonna say it's it was, you know, in self defense, but she definitely did bring bring Lascher to bring the thunder down And so yeah. I don't I don't know. Joel, I wish I could make more sense out of a lot of these choices. And it also seems like like now surely, this is the end of this of this witch hunter, like, plot line, unless this is gonna a through line that carries us through to next season and all of that, which I really hope it doesn't because they they've gotta find a better a better conflict. And, oh, strangely, no. There are better conflicts written within the book that involve the actual

Joel: characters.

Joel: Still, well, again, Like even with this mess that you have, you could go you could go right now from what they've written themselves, and you could you could find all sorts of more interesting and compelling narrative conflict than to rehash this witch hunter story in any way. I genuinely hope I hope every single one of us did. I hope the organization has fallen apart. And, you know, Cortland pays whoever he needs to pay to run the rest of them out of

Ashley: town. Everyone goes to prison for their everyone goes to prison for their participation in the January sixth incident.

Joel: Yes. Exactly. And

Ashley: they're out of our way.

Joel: In our in our discord group, Rachel Nantz said earlier this week, this entire show has been so on the nose. There's just zero subtlety. I think that sums up my main grip. It lacks all of Anne Rice's poetry and nuance. It's loud when it should be quiet. Scenes are cut short for no fucking reason, like the editors just gave up. I mean, we talked about that last week. You could have you could have done the simple thing of switching the reveals of the dagger being missing -- Right. -- and and sipprian being lost in the memory. You could have switched those two things and made that more compelling. Again, it's from top to bottom, this thing seems haphazard and and I don't know, just it's it's it's a mess. And listening to the coverage of the official podcast this week, where the other co creator was was heard from finally, I I genuinely feel like the entire production is This is not, like, one one person's fault. This is not a couple of bad decisions. The

Ashley: whole thing.

Ashley: That's an interesting that's an interesting

Joel: job. Really doesn't to get

Ashley: it. Yeah. I mean, this anyone that doesn't

Joel: seem to get it.

Ashley: When a show does seem to feel as messy as this does, it usually is a disconnect with amongst the creative team. And I think it's very clear that there is at least a huge disconnect because it just it seems like everyone's in different worlds. It seems like everyone's in a different a different show. It's almost. It's like they all got different versions of the script. And and and and they're all in different genres. And now we've mashed them together They we brought them all together after a disastrous rehearsal process and just thought, hopefully, it'll work.

Joel: What's what's the line from Shakespeare Love? I don't know. It sort of works out on the day. That's the message.

Ashley: Yeah. Exactly.

Ashley: Exactly. Exactly. Yes. It all all seems to

Joel: come together. It's

Ashley: magic. Okay. God.

Joel: I wanna wanna talk a little bit about speculation. So if you are not a book reader and you don't want any potential spoilers, now is your time to bounce off Watch the eighth episode this week and join us for our finale discussion coming up as soon as we can get it out to you next weekend. But I wanna dive into this this discussion of the Tallamaska a little bit further. Okay. So in the later vampire chronicles, there are actually several of those books that touch on different aspects of the Tallamaska's background. And, again, without spoiling you because you haven't read a lot of those books either. What that comes down to is there are there are several different creatures in the in this connected universe, the Mayfair world and the vampire chronicles. That were mortal beings became spirit beings for some long period of time and then reincarnate eventually into moral form in one way or another. A couple of those characters are actually founders of the Tallamask as turns out. In their spirit form, they sort of fostered the creation of this group and and organized it over time as the sort of unseen masters of the organization. Right. Obviously, in the Vampire Chronicles, the character of Amel the the central character that becomes the, you know, animating force of vampirism. Was a spirit creature at one point in the later books we discover, that spirit came from an actual body that existed at one point. And eventually, again, spoiler Amel is incarnated in the books, in the novels directly. So I wonder if they're going to connect Lascher and the Talto's, whatever that ends up coming in

Ashley: this universe

Joel: to those other characters more directly. In the novels, they aren't really. The Mayfair's crossover, but the story of Lascher and the Talto's is not ever really touched on in relation to these things that I've just mentioned from the vampire chronicles. It is a very similar story

Joel: obviously since it's a spirit being that came from a mortal body and then eventually again finds a way to incarnate into physical flesh.

Joel: I think those things are all too

Joel: connected for this not to be connected in the show. Right? If you're if you're building up to the beginnings of vampirism in the interview series, and you're going to show how that happened. I think the story of Lascher can be connected to it, and I'm assuming that's what's going on here with the with the Tallamaska story. As I mentioned

Joel: earlier though, I've got just zero faith that this creative team's gonna

Joel: put it together in any good way. That's

Ashley: a lot of books they would have had to have read Joel, and we already know that at least as far as most of the cast is considered. They really don't really don't wanna read a bunch of books. Yeah. Right. But but that's actually a really that's a really good thought, and I and I love that idea. I I hope I hope that there's that much thought into the long game because this is also one of those things where if they haven't really thought their long game through, this could get real real, real bad. This could get like like lost bad. You know, this could get Yeah.

Joel: Oh, worse than lost. I mean, I think about the worst seasons of of true blood. And this could absolutely get down there. Or again, like, you know, I don't I don't know. I joked on Facebook this week that, you know, the early seasons have charmed, would never.

Ashley: Would yes. Exactly. Prude Prude would never.

Joel: Listen. Those witches would eat these witches up. I don't know. Oh. They would they would they would they would the school in the scrirer.

Ashley: Those witches got shit done. You know, like, I've seen lots of witches get shit done. These witches have gotten the least done out of any way. I'm like, can I just should I just rewatch the craft? Is that what I should be doing with my time right now? By the way, you know, those which are

Joel: smaller.

Joel: You know what? I thought about the the scene at the end of this episode where Rowan is screaming the magic words and calling Lash her down. I thought about the the episodes where Willow goes dark side.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. And

Joel: and there's an example of a character. Right? Who now, obviously, you had seasons and seasons a great character development there. But there's a character who's soft and shy and nerdy and mousy and not in her power. And yet through terrible circumstances thrust upon her and a little bit

Joel: of

Joel: her own pride and and, you know, whatever. She comes up with this yeah. I need for revenge, honestly. She comes up with this vengeful spirit. And this massive amount of power and, like, calm and threatening and just anyway, there there's a way to do this and these people aren't doing it.

Ashley: We've seen better witches. Thank you very much. I I'm starting to worry that they literally only hired Alexandria Diario so that they could take that beautiful picture of her that's on the header of all of their their media material where she's clutching the pearl against her face and her eyes are all wide and mysterious. I

Joel: mean, she's really lovely, but that image on it the the more that I think about it. That image is is closer to, like, what's the not the hardy boys, but the what was the what was the girl detective book? Nancy Drew. Like, that's yeah. That looks like a Nancy Drew novel, like, honestly, you know? It

Ashley: looks to be like like that could be a cover of of, like, the the twilight lady which series?

Joel: Yes. Yes. Like, I don't or honestly, go look at AMC. They got, like, nine different which series and shows right now, which honestly I think is the only reason why this happened. I think they they bought all of these books And they were like, well, we'll get this one up because it it'll play into the fifteen thousand different other properties we got to have which in the title. You know? I don't know, man. I don't know what they're doing. It's a mess. I hope they find a way to nail this and and bring it back to something that is, you know, not just an oddity and makes a lot of money theoretically on the back end for Christopher and Anne, which we like to hear about. But Yeah.

Ashley: They want them to get paid. They they

Joel: I want Good TV.

Ashley: Yeah. I want a TV.

Joel: I

Joel: I do

Ashley: want I do want our guy to get paid. I want Christopher to be making somebody off this slop. Also, right now, I've never been haven't been this angry in this entire process until this moment where I'm looking at this picture of Jack Houston with short hair looking like an absolute fucking snack. And once again, I'm angry all over again at the way that they have styled him.

Joel: I they could have asked literally any man who's ever grown on his hair and they could have told you, there's the time period when when you look like you have shaggy hair. And then there's the time period when you have long hair. And there's the time period in between when you try to wear bandanas and baseball caps and don't go out

Joel: in public very much.

Ashley: Mhmm. That's the exact And last year, apparently

Joel: yeah. Lasers lived in that period for centuries.

Ashley: Yeah. Bless his heart. Bless his heart. When he could have had the short hot haircut. God bless us all.

Joel: In the books, don't they say that Lascher looks a lot like Julian?

Ashley: Yes. Yes, Joel. But don't even start with that because I'm just gonna fucking lose my mind.

Ashley: Yes. Yes. I just Yes. It looks like I mean, like, dude.

Ashley: Because the because because he's mistaken for Julian sometimes. People think that's who they saw when they see him.

Joel: Yes. Like, Oh, I saw you out, but here you are in the parlor. What happened? And Julian laughs because it was the man. Ah, yeah. And again, And see there, like, they sort of halfway did that because they put them in these old suits? Where are those suits from? Those are from Julian's time period probably. But the suits aren't well tailored. Julian suits would be well tailored.

Ashley: Yes. Why does Lasher look like he's wearing his big brother's suits? It's a mystery that hopefully will be solved in season two?

Joel: Y'all, I'm I'm genuinely I cannot tell you how much I have enjoyed being able to read the comments and and

Ashley: Oh my god.

Joel: Get there are a handful of folks that are genuinely enjoying this show. And I would like to thank them, by the way, for for giving feedback on why, giving some genuine answers, and look, they're not wrong. Right? Like, all of this is subjective. All

Ashley: all of this is subjective.

Joel: And so nobody's yuck in your yum. We and I I do know, Ashley, you and I are both absolutely colored by our love of these novels. However, you've said it many times and it's absolutely true. We don't know these novels well enough to be true book purists That's not we're asking for. We

Ashley: may have found

Joel: lots of things that they changed in interview with the vampire we were fine for. We wanted a more coherently told story. And for us, this one isn't hitting. However, Here's some good news for you. This is this is what I looked forward to today. Ashley, you and I've already talked about it. We both started reading the Vampire Armand. That'll be our next

Ashley: Hell, yes.

Joel: We're gonna cover that as soon as we can get through it. Probably be about a month, month and a half after Mayfair wraps up. So you're gonna look forward to that in in the spring sometime early spring. And then after that, I I wanna do some more stuff. Between here and there, we've got season two production of interview with the Vampire. That's gonna start in the first week of April, I believe. We we got that posted into the group the other day. They're gonna start shooting, I think, April fourth, April third, something like that. So news will begin to drop on those productions as that ramps up. We do have a lot of great TV outside of our particular fandom to look forward to over the next several months. Like I mentioned, the Mandalorian's coming back. I'm excited about that. Ahsoka later this this year is gonna be a good

Ashley: one for us. Yellow jackets.

Joel: Yes. Exactly. There are tons of of great series out there that are coming back. There's lots of great TV to be had. For our fandom specifically, we're gonna talk about exactly what we're gonna do. We may do some movie commentary episodes where Ashley and I watched the vampire -- Yeah. -- of -- critical adaptations that have been a lot of fun. That'd be a lot of fun. Right? Dependent upon how long if we get a if we get some idea of when the premiere date for season two is gonna be, we may even do a full rewatch of season one of interview with the vampire. I can promise you right now. We're not gonna do a full rewatch of season one of my fear witches because there is no reason for us to bring our visceral y'all back to you as I pointed to you, it would boil with an even higher heat as we go back into those early episodes.

Ashley: It's true because we're just gonna would just be pissed off. Like but yeah. No. We'd be watching those first episodes with brand new angry eyes.

Joel: You're right. These motherfuckers left all the marbles on that table. The odd destiny in this stupid fucking crows. So we're not gonna do that. We're not gonna do that. But there are a ton of great books to get to I would still really like to talk to Erica Roberto Paolo about the An Rice autobiography that talks about her religious journey I think that's a really interesting subject to get into. So we've got a lot of things coming up. Stay connected. Stay in the community. Continue to give us your feedback on what you think of this show and everything else that's going on, and continue to help bring us links like for instance the production dates. I hadn't seen that article. Somebody found posted in the Facebook group earlier today. So thanks for all of that. Ashley, before we wrap up, you got anything you wanna tell folks about or midnight or me a signal about

Ashley: that. No. Just just hang out with us a little bit longer. We'll get through this season of this show, and and I'm definitely I'm reading our mom first, but then I'm jumping on last year real real quick. So if anybody wants to have a little a little little angry book club with me, jump on the Facebook group, and let's let's do it. Yeah.

Joel: I think I think that's exactly the plan, by the way. And think goodness Lascher is a much more digestible novel than the witching hour. It's not a fifty hour

Ashley: thing. Yeah.

Joel: So that that'll be everything will go we'll go to vampire minds, we'll go Lascher, and then we'll go to Pandora as the next regular series book after that one. Alright, folks. Until next week when we talk to you about episode eight, The season one finale for the Mayfair which is we have been your hosts. I'm Joel. I'm Ashley. And we are the articulate covenant.

Joel: Thanks for listening to the Articulate Cove. You can join our community on Facebook by following the links in the show notes or searching for articulate coven on Facebook. You can subscribe to the show in Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or at articulatecoven dot com. And share us with your AmRise loving friends.