She’s Made of Chocolate and Bronze, and I Just Want to Sop Her Up - Ashley and Joel Discuss Queen of the Damned, the movie

She’s Made of Chocolate and Bronze, and I Just Want to Sop Her Up - Ashley and Joel Discuss Queen of the Damned, the movie

Joel: The Articulate Coveen is the original unofficial podcast and fan community for An Rice's interview with the Vampire and An Rice's Immortal Universe from AMC and AMC Plus.

Joel: Welcome to the Articulate a coven, the unofficial fan podcast and community for Anne Rice's, the Vampire Chronicles, the Vampire Lisette, and the forthcoming TV series. We are your hosts. I'm

Ashley: Joel. I'm Ashley.

Joel: And we are the articulate coven. First and foremost, Ashley, news. We've got news to discuss is not all that often lately, but I have a feeling over the next months, weeks, and months that news will accelerate. And pretty soon, we may be having whole episodes where it's just discussion of of news related to the TV series instead of these deep dives and backward looking episodes that we've had so far talking about the novel and the movies today. Our our main topic is gonna be the queen of the damned film. But we've got a show runner. Fine. I I should say, we've got a new show runner. Once upon a time, we had a show runner and and he went away. We've got I think, in many ways, a better one now. Ashley, I'm excited about this.

Ashley: I am too. I okay. I'm a big fan of And I also really like that she's a writer as well. I think that that really that helps so much. It helps with with making sure, you know, when you're in charge of the whole shebang, having multiple skills besides just, oh, I'm a good show runner. Is so important and I think having a writing background and she wrote, like, I think, eighteen episodes of back in the day, and has had writing duties on several other shows. I just I think that that bodes well for good storytelling.

Joel: Absolutely.

Joel: The the news being broken on the Vampire Chronicles Facebook page. We've got a link in the show notes here. You can it'll take you straight to it, but Christopher announced it. He said today, I am thrilled to tell you that after an exhaustive search, we join forces with the perfect showrunner, a woman of vast experience and impeccable professionalism who brings with her a deep respect for the material. Say hello, to d Johnson. There's a photo of d and Christopher and Anne and their friend and valued team member Eric Shaw Quinn. Eric, by the way, was the narrator of the most recent Lestat novel as well. The one that I don't know if you go back and listen to that episode, I was a little disappointed that he had replaced the previous narrator, but Eric did a good job. Where does Dee come from? As you mentioned, she she worked on e r for quite a while, She worked on the good wife. She was behind BOSS, the Kelsey Grammar series, short lived on Showtime, I believe. She worked on Nashville and the most recent thing and probably the one that might have the most connection directly to our series is the science fiction, Odyssey Mars. That's a big speculative, you know, science fiction show where you have a lot of world building, etcetera, etcetera. And so I think that might be a project that you and I take a look at online and see if we can't bring our thoughts on how her work there might reflect on her work for the vampire chronicles just in the same way that we discussed the Castle Rock series for Hulu and how that might give us an idea of where the vampire chronicles show might go on Hulu. D is a woman of color. She is also am I wrong as shit member of the LGBT community? I think so. I think

Ashley: I read that somewhere. Yes. Indeed. I believe so.

Joel: Yeah. So the the nature the very nature of her personal experiences, I think, are going to bring a life to the otherness of the vampire world that thus far hasn't been presented to us on film, really. It's clear in Anne's work and even as a, you know, a cis white woman has always felt uttered. She said that in interviews, her entire life, she's always felt as an outsider, and she brings that perspective very much to her work. Her vampires are in many ways, allegories for LGBT community members and the struggles that they sometimes face. Being accepted and being seen for who they are alongside their straight brothers and sisters. It's an interesting idea, I think, and I think one that's time is due. Also, I feel like it's likely that she is going to work well with Christopher and Anne because of her experiences and because of the fact that she and Christopher share that community and and that background. I I think it is very likely that this will be a great working relationship that we can look for to many years of fruitful production out of. Hopefully anyway, I think and you and I talked about this. The one thing that I don't think we want is like what you had with the Walking Dead, which worked out, I guess, okay, in the end. That's still a very successful series. But you literally had a different showrunner for the first three years in a row, I think, before they finally settled in. It was just constant overturned, constant new directions for for the show, the tone of how you're gonna build everything. And and with a series that is as wide ranging as the Vampire Chronicles is, and as different in tone from story to story. Right? Like the the narrative thrust of the vampireistat or the queen of the damned is quite different than something like tell of the body thief, which is different even yet again than something like MIMNOC the devil. So to be able to tell all of those stories and the wide range of experiences and characters that are going to be present in the series, I think that D is hopefully, just the right voice. I'm very, very positive about this development. Howard Bauchner:

Ashley: Yeah, I have good feelings about it too. I think that I think that something that we all worry about, I think, in the back of our minds a little bit at least, is to have the relationships kind of watered down --

Joel: Mhmm. --

Ashley: and and and make things real heteronormative in this world, which it's totally not. And so I think that to have, you know, to have clear eyes and a clear voice is gonna be really important for the show runner. And I think in order to be able to make the stories to connect the stories because you are correct. They're so different stylistically, book to book, narrative voice to narrative voice, It's a very, very different experience. And I think somebody who has a lot of experience and has experienced a a a lot of different facets of life and can look at it from so many different perspectives. I think that that's really going to give us a lot of continuity with it.

Joel: Alright. Let's get into today's main topic because I I feel like Oh my god. Ashley, you and I both have quite a few things to say about this. The the film is the queen of the damned starring Aliyah and Stewart Townsend in particular I'm pulling it up here. When did this movie come out? As a matter of fact, I don't

Ashley: It came out later than I remember it. I

Joel: got me too.

Ashley: I thought it came out, like, in the late I feel like it was the late nineties, but then if I thought something I read said it was, like, two thousand.

Joel: So it's February twenty second two thousand and two was the release date. And I I will say that something that we should prep this entire discussion with is a little bit of what was going on behind the scenes when they you know, got to this production. So the the film rights had floated around Hollywood to different production studios and and different overarching studios a couple of different times after interview with the vampire. There were several attempts actually to make this story and to continue that film. The actual sequel fell apart pretty quickly, I think, and it had more to do with the quick rise of of Brad Pitt and the continued flourishing of Tom Cruise's career. It was just very difficult to get both of those actors back into this project as they were basically the top two men in Hollywood for a long time. After the release of that film. What ended up happening is the production studio was under the gun. They were going to lose the rights to this story to these characters if they didn't make a film. And so this one got sort of shoved through the process. Aliyah was cast in particular to capitalize on her rising star as a pop singer at the time. And then, of course, you had her untimely death, which happened right after the release of this film or or basically coinciding with the release of this film. So it sort of cast the whole thing in a very weird light. The fact that the film itself isn't very good. The finished product isn't great because it was rushed through. It just adds to the sort of like weird turd in the punch bowl that this is compared to the rest of this franchise. Right? I mean, it's it's so strange that this even exists in some ways to

Ashley: It's it's okay. I I I had to really stop myself from, like, sharing on in our Facebook group my experience as I was watching this because I even turned it into a drinking game. I was having a great time watching it. But It's so like, there's some things about it that are really that are really great. I actually I don't there's some things about it. I don't hate. But so much of it is just w t f. You know, like, so much of it is why why And why this part of the story? Why are we focusing on this? And characters acting in ways that they're completely that are completely the opposite of how these characters would behave in life in in the world that we know them to exist in. Like fake ass, marius, I cannot. I'm so, like, I feel personally attacked by that terrible portrayal of merrias. Well,

Joel: the real the really horrible thing is very few of the actors in this are actually bad actors. Right?

Ashley: Like, we're all bad in it.

Joel: Lena Olin plays Maher ed. I think she's quite a good actor. And even in this, she's got a few moments. It's just the script is so threadbare to offer anything to to hang on or to chew around. It is it is a real, real mess. The very first thing that struck me as I began this movie rewatching it this time. I I had watched it a couple of months ago after we finished the novel reread, and then I sat down and watched it again the other night on my iPad. This movie is a perfect example of how you could do a first person voice over narration, which the novels has Obviously, the novels are written as journals or diaries basically from the these fan favorite characters, Louis, and interview with the Vampire. And then List Dot for this one and for the vampire List Dot and Queen of the damned, obviously. And most of the rest of the series, frankly. The film tries to keep that, and it uses a narration from List DAT, and it absolutely ruins everything. It's it's just it is immediately terrible. There is one interesting thing, though, in this very opening scene I thought. The first time that we see So you go quite a long a few minutes anyway without seeing what Scott's face. You see him you see his body, you see him moving, you see a lot of scenery, as you hear him, but you don't see his face for a long time. And then all of a sudden, the line is something like, maybe it was the hundred years of rest, maybe it was just that first meal, and you're watching him feed, by the way, And then all of a sudden, he reveals his face. Like, you you cut him close on Stewart Townsend as L'Estat. And he says, maybe it was just that first meal, but I felt better than ever. It reminds me so much of the moment in Ironman two where they've recast war machine James Rhoads character And so the new one shows up. It's Don Chigel in the second iron man. And Robert Downey Junior says, it's you, and Don Chigel says, it's me. Let's move on. And that's the only reference that they make to the fact that he's been recast. But I felt like this was sort of the filmmakers trying to make a nod at the fact that this is a new list out here, it's the only reference they make to the other film or previous events. And when you really get into the story and and actually try to put together the world that they've constructed here. It's even more frustrating some of the things that they've skipped over or left out or whatever, but But that moment, I actually gave a little smile. I was like, well, alright. Look at you. He's not better than Tom Cruise. In any way, not as an actor, not as a not as a looker, definitely not as a list at. His accent fades in and out and his horrendousness throughout

Ashley: That's my

Joel: dream. It's the

Ashley: worst. Either do it or don't. Either do it or don't. Jesus Christ bless him. I drink every time Stewart Townsend's accent changed. He used, like, he used, like, three different accents and then I think his own in there as well. And so anytime he dropped his accent or or or f ed it up, I would drink. And I had many beers in the in the span of this film's runtime. I have to be very honest. I even now I feel like I should be drinking every time I think about how bad his accents are, wherever I am in whatever situation.

Joel: I would be willing to I am not a wealthy man. And I am also not a gambler, but I would be willing to bet a fairly large sum of money that Stewart Townsend as of the the filming of this project anyway, had never read any of these books, not a single one. Oh,

Ashley: I would think that that is true for sure.

Joel: And likely the case for most of the rest of the cast as well is this this is not a cast that's bringing a lot to the table as far as their understanding or interpretation of the characters as presented on the page.

Ashley: No. And you're totally right that this is not a bad cast. I have never seen some of these actors act so poorly though. Like, this is there's very bad acting in this movie. This movie and I don't know if that's a fault. I mean, I'm sure it's a combination. The writing, the directing, the actors not doing their proper research and getting to know these characters. But good god. I it was painful sometimes to watch. I felt like I was watching like like it's like a high school play version interpretation of this. It was just it was it was it was awkward sometimes. I felt I felt that like like embarrassment for the

Joel: Here's the perfect example. Okay. The actress who plays Jesse is Marguerite Moreau. I've only really seen her in a couple of things before the thing that I recognized her from or remembered her from was wet hot American summer. She played the she's in the original. She's in the Netflix reboot or whatever they did. You know, there's like a sequel thing and and the prequel series that they did. She's in all of those. That is literally like a parody of eighties, you know, camp movies and yet her acting there is head and olders above this film, which at least pretends to be a companion piece to what was a high brow adult horror suspense movie in interview with the vampire. You know, like, interview with the vampire was the kind of r rated movie that silence of the lambs is. It's it's one that is wins awards and is considered high brow entertainment for real, you know, right thinking adults. You know, that's what interview with vampire is. This is Schlocky sci fi channel horror. It's just Yeah. Just really really sad and depressing. And I am so thankful that very very soon, it will be effectively washed from the pop culture memory by the fact that this series will exist. That's the one big thing that we can look forward to here.

Ashley: It has a real sharknado feel to it, you know. It's just it's not It's not good for anybody. And my apologies for I know that a few of you guys that listen really liked really liked this movie, and I think that's fine. I just And there were things I liked better about it this time around. And that I was like, oh, that's actually not that's not a terrible idea. But then they oh, then they just go too far with it. You know, it's like like, Lestat's playing the violin, like, a crazed looter ticket. It's awesome. And you're like, oh, I'm getting into this moment. And then as I start glowing, why? Why? Why? Why?

Joel: Why? So bad. I before we get into the different moments in the movie itself. Let's talk about one aspect that I think a lot of fans do enjoy, particularly fans in our community. I know I've heard from them. A lot of people like the music in

Ashley: there. Yeah.

Joel: I I don't. I don't love it. I don't even I don't really like it. I didn't like this music when it was the music that was popular. Like, when this was when corn was at its height, I was not a corn fan. When I remember very specifically the announcement being made. I remember Anne being excited about it. That the I can't remember his name, but the lead singer of porn was gonna be involved in the creation of the music for Lestats. Album, she was very excited in the beginning at least publicly. That was her statement from it. And I thought, It's not gonna work. It's just I don't I don't know I don't know what I would do instead. And you and I've talked about them in the past. How do you do this accurately? And how do you do it where you satisfy a big portion of the fan base. Anyway, you're never gonna satisfy everybody. But this was definitely a miss for me. I think this is gonna be an issue, though, anytime and every time you tell this story and actually make the music. If you actually do the rock star thing. I think it instantly it it cannot be what the music is supposed to be in the book, which is this seductive, unbelievably appealing, world shaking, popular thing. Right? There's a trailer that just came out the other day for a film called yesterday, which is a world in which this guy like he has a bike accident or something. There's of flash, the whole world goes out of power for a few seconds. And when it comes back on, he's the only one that remembers that the Beatles existed. Everyone else doesn't rip they they closed just that never happened. So he begins a rock career writing all of the Beatles music. Right? This is what it feels like to me we're effectively asking for with this. What is described in the book is a rock star and a set of music, an album or two, that is so transformational and so different than anything we've heard before. That it literally changes the world of rock music in a day or two. Right? That's what the novel describes. Well, if such a person existed, if such a rock star existed, if someone had written such music, it would already be out, and you couldn't make the movie around it. You know what I mean? Like, it's just not it's not a realistic thing. So I am very concerned about this particular aspect of adapting this story as we move forward. And and you and I've talked in other episodes before. We don't have to retread that ground. I think there are other ways around this. I think you could do the novel a public, you know, persona of L'Estat without doing the rock star thing, you could go in a totally different direction, make it caster, you know, make him make him have a podcast. Whatever. I don't know. But I am worried that there is no music that will satisfy me. I mean, I have my favorites. He if he came out and sounded like the Decemberist, I would probably like that a lot more. But also, that's not LESDOT either. So

Ashley: Right. And

Joel: people who hate the Decemberists are gonna hate the music again. So what do you do, Ashley?

Ashley: You know, I I don't know. But this was one aspect of of of it that I honestly I I didn't hate. It's not really my style of music either. And definitely, I had moments of just I have this, like, empathy embarrassment that I'll feel for for in in in some experience in some situations. And I and I felt like that so much through this movie. I was just cringing with embarrassment for the actors at times. And I don't know if it was just like, if it was I could kind of feel from them that they couldn't even commit to the absurdity of the entire thing or what it was. But I will say, like, I didn't I don't hate the music in this. And I think for the time that it came out, they were really smart. I feel like, you know, as far as like rock bands that shake the earth when they perform. You know, I think about early, like, early rolling stones and things like that. You know that are just, like, unbelievably good and sexy and and you can't explain why they're sexy and that sort of thing. That's kind of how I how I think of what L'Estat should be or in in that presentation of the music. But again, like you said, those those styles of music are either not popular now or or have already happened. You know, have like, it's hard to do something groundbreaking when so much groundbreaking has already been done as far as music goes. And probably not being musical geniuses, you know, I'm sure they have very great people working on the music for this, but it's not like it's some, you know, otherworldly musical genius working on it. So I just don't think that they're gonna come up with anything that's that's new and groundbreaking. The the best thing they can do is embrace the music at the time and hope that and hope for the best. You know, if that's the direction they go in?

Joel: Yeah. I will say, look at just came out this past year, a star is born. And the music in that movie is actually quite good. The the -- Right. -- stuff that comes from what's his name? The the male rock star, I can't think of either of their character's names down, but the the one that comes from the male rock star Like, they sound like a modern, you know, country ish rock star kinda guy. Like, that that could work. You could imagine that guy's career behind those songs. And likewise, the stuff that that Gaga has featured on, like, that all sounds like her or like a similar artist that could be popular today. And the key to that is that they used Gaga behind the scenes to create a lot of that music. They also brought in Lucas Nelson, Willie's son, Willie Nelson's son, was a major driving force behind a lot of that music. And it shows he is an actual, you know, currently producing popular music musician. A singer songwriter and so is Gaga and the two of them together can produce that work. So if you get that kind of level of involvement on it, I I can see how you could come up with something that was positive. I will say that here's a couple of highlights for me. The I don't know the name of the song, but the the one that Akasha is dancing in the bar early when she first appears. I think it's it's the chorus of something like, why won't you die or something like

Ashley: that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Joel: That song is very compelling and theory fitting for the moment too. Like it's sexy and exotic and yet threatening and you know, it's been a little scary, and it's got a great edge to it when she sort of brings about the destruction of the bar and everything. So there are moments. Yeah. There are absolutely moments even in the soundtrack that I don't to test. But that that's a big stumbling block, I think, in the in the future of this. You already referenced my next point that I wanna get to. And it is the origin for L'Estat in this film

Ashley: and we present

Joel: this universe. So in this movie, he was kidnapped from his home taken to the Mediterranean and he has made into a vampire by Marius. This idea of combining in shortcut, I understand why you need to do it Like, what does Magnus matter in

Ashley: a great

Joel: scheme of things? If if the only books you're working on is the vampire lestat and Queen of the damned.

Ashley: I'll get it.

Joel: Especially if you're trying to get the movie under two hours, you're trying to tell both these stories at once. Okay. Myriad is a character that matters later. Why don't we just tie them together directly? Marius and and L'Estat do have a father son relationship. They've got a maker, minty, you know, mentor, minty relationship. So I can understand it. But by making Marius his maker, but preserving the fact that L'Estat didn't ask for it, you ruin both their characters. Absolutely. You just absolutely ruin both of them. First of all, part of Marius' power and his position amongst the rest of the vampires. The biggest part of it becomes because he kept the king and queen for so long, and and he is respected because of that in his age. But even more than that because there are many vampires, especially in the later books that are much older than Marius. The reason why he maintained such an important part of the the coven, I think, is because of his moral compass and the strictness with which he holds to it. He was not a religious man in his mortal life, but he was a very moral man and he had a code ethics that he held to even after becoming a vampire. You can see that in the fact that he only ever really creates Pandora as a off spring. Right? Like, he never he never gives the gift to another vampire. And even then, he sort of begrudgingly does it because it's out of love in this fascination with a creature that swears that she was tied to him in a former life, you know? So, like, he's caught up in a romance at at that moment. That's literally his soul mate in some ways. He could have done it for Lestat's friends. He could have come and saved Lestat earlier in Lestat's plight than he did. In the novels. He didn't because of, again, the patience, the the logic that Marius brings to bear on everything, the not cold, but the calculating nature of his intellect, all of that thrown overboard. He toys with L'Estat in the beginning then he toys with David Talbot at the end. It's it's so not marius. Oh, it's just it pisses me off. Oh, I was so angry.

Ashley: I was so angry about this, like, irrationally furious. And I think that because we've learned more about Marius, even more about Marius since this movie came out, that it's even more offensive to me. I'm like, this portrayal of this character is is completely, completely wrong. Now, I don't hate the way that they combine things and the way that they that's actually I was like, actually, this is a pretty smart way to kinda cut off a middleman, get to the meat of the story. But I think it's it's the way, like, his callousness, like, that's not a quality of Marius. He's not a catalyst person. He's not a catalyst vampire, whatever. That's not a quality that really possesses in this character. It was very callous and and menacing and and toying. And I actually I I wrote down Why is Marius playing Lastat an interview with a vampire? Why Lastat is playing Louis? And that's how I felt, like, especially after right after he turned Listat, like, that whole section. It just I felt like I was watching interview with the Vampire Again, with Listat toying with Louis, and And it was like, I was I just was so freaking confused and so aggravated.

Joel: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I hadn't thought about that, but you're absolutely right. It is it's a role reversal. In many ways. Very very strange. How is this movie so short and yet it feels so long? Already at this at this point, I'm taking notes about how Interminable this movie is and we're, like, twenty minutes into it, maybe.

Ashley: Oh, yeah. No. For sure. Like, I was definitely several times I checked the timer as it was ticking down because I rented it. Don't don't buy this. You don't want it forever. But I rented this on Google Play and I just was like watching the time tick down. I was like, please let this over is a torture.

Joel: Here's the other thing that struck me at this point because we we start hearing we we realize that we are getting the story of L'Estat through Jesse reading his diary. But this isn't a novel that she's reading. This isn't the book, the interview, you know, the vampire Lisot. Lisot has not published this. This was literally a or a diary that he had left behind somewhere and that Tallamaska had stolen and has in their archives. So in this universe that they've created, Lastat is bold enough to do the rock star thing, but not bold enough to print history, but it's like, oh, come on. They're not Like, these vampires are famous for their novels. Like, that is the that's the center. You gotta have the novels be a thing in the TV show.

Joel: Right?

Ashley: Well, here yeah. Here's the other thing. I'm sorry. I don't The stat does not strike me as the type of guy that keeps a journal. I'm just saying, that that does not seem like him to me.

Joel: Yeah. No. It's again, it it makes it more like Louis than Louis thought. It

Ashley: really is absolutely

Joel: You

Joel: got

Joel: the whole thing wrong. So you actually referenced the scene with the violins earlier. This is the first thing in the whole film that I thought this is a good scene. I really enjoyed the whole that whole section. In fact, it's electric sounding. First of all, him playing the violin. It didn't sound right, but I dug that. I think that that's something that we see in the story of Nicholas a few times, the the way that Lestat describes him playing especially after he's turned. It's otherworldly and haunting, etcetera, etcetera. I think that all that's all very, very cool. The tension that builds all the way up until the moments that the the humans die. It reminds me a lot of the scene and interview when Lestat toys with the two prostitutes in

Ashley: front of Louis? Yep.

Joel: So right before this scene, though, right before the violin scene, there's the scene where Lestat's agent Roger brings in the two ladies for him to feed on. And I think that scene is meant to evoke the scene from interview, but it ends up feeling clumsy and ridiculous, whereas the violin scene is so much better in that respect. But even there, it's a little overacted. And then as you said, they flip his highlights on and you're like, what the hell?

Ashley: What the hell? But even in that in that previous scene where they bring the two the two ladies in, and he starts to crawl up the wall. I was like

Joel: Oh, god.

Ashley: I will I I was kinda sucked into that moment for a second. I was like, this is their their minds have gotta be blown, and then he drops down from the ceiling and they scream like they're in a student produced horror film for a high school, and it's and it complete you're like, oh, you guys almost had this you almost had me. Because that's the kind of shit I like. I was that's awesome and creepy and I crawled up walls is terrifying and that's something that I remember from Jack you know what I mean? Those are that's, like, to me, like, iconic vampire things to do. And and then they just they they all they ruin it by bad acting or going too far?

Joel: Well, and it it's, again, kinda reminiscent of the scene where who is at Santiago is toying with Louis in the alleyway in Paris in interview with the vampire where he runs up the

Joel: wall.

Joel: And we're just standing upside down suddenly for a minute, you know. So right after this, we get a little bit more with Jesse, and we get a better idea of the organization that she's a part of. So this is again a huge no no for me. They have screwed the Tallamask up completely they're just vampire hunters. That's what the Tallamask is in this world. Except they're pansy vampire hunters. They don't engage. They don't interact. They don't have a plan to exterminate or or introduce themselves to the vampiric community at all. They're just monitoring them. It is it is the most pathetic version of what they could be. Likewise, Jesse is a shell of herself. So Jesse in the novels is a diligent gifted hardworking, hardheaded investigator. She is fighting her own paranormal organization, the Tallamasca, to get to the truth of this vampire story. While she's also hiding the fact that she works for the Tallamask at all from her family, She's this woman with the tragic past of her aunt, and she's sort of like shunted around as an orphan, etcetera, etcetera, but also lives a life of privilege because of the wealth of the family, etcetera. So all of these things come together in the person of Jesse. We get none of that in this movie. All she is is Lastat's groupie. That's all she is in this film and it is disgusting.

Ashley: Yeah. It's a complete waste of what is a really cool complex character. It's just a complete waste. And a character that I really really love in the books, but that's just yeah. That's a total fumble. And I don't know I don't know whose fault that is. That's definitely the writing. I mean, it's definitely the writing, but it's, you know, it's down to, I don't know, every bit of it. Her oh, yeah. It just felt like she's it felt like she's the type of person that would write letters, love letters to a serial killer in

Joel: jail.

Joel: So like an hour in, Marius comes and meets L'Estat. They're sitting on like a billboard or something thing above the city and having a conversation, which first of all, I was reminded at this moment in the book, Marius is still buried under the remains of the temple that Akasha has destroyed and like Pandora and somebody has to come save him or whatever. Like, god. There's just so much good story that we missed here. But it finally occurred to me what happened with this film. This film, what happened is The studio was under the gun. They had to get this movie made. They had to get the rights maintained by getting this under production. And so, literally, there's like an all hands meeting and they asked the room, hey, we gotta write this And Rise movie. Does anybody know those books? And like one dude in the back, his wife has read them and loved them for years and keeps talking about him. So he sticks his hand up and he goes, yeah. Yeah. I know all about the vampires and stuff. You know, like, then quickly the narrator says and I Ron Howard voice, he did not.

Ashley: He did not know about the vampires and stuff, for sure.

Joel: No. So look, very little about this movie as any good at all. Aliyah is not perfect, but she does absolutely capture the otherworldly exotic nature of Akasha. And that first moment when you see her when she comes into the bar, the way she moves is electric. It's a terrible script. Her lines are horrible. The fangs that they give her are a little ridiculous. The the vampiric special effects, the way they flip upside down and attack each other, like, all of it is nonsense. But still, there's like the in the middle there, I can understand why somebody some executive was watching the dailies of this and going, Aliyah is gonna be a a g d superstar. Like, this gonna make her

Joel: the

Joel: next Marilyn Monroe, and we're all gonna make a billion dollars off of it. Yeah. This might have been a breakout role for her if she had lived even though the film wasn't any good. I think it's possible that she might have risen above it just because she is really, really compelling. And she's got so little screen time too. That's the other thing that I didn't realize looking back on this. And even when I had watched it recently, to go into watch it the second time, I'd forgotten, we don't get any backstory effectively on Akasha. We don't meet Maher at really or or understand anything. First of all, the twins don't exist. It's only Maher at. Right? There's no Maher. Also, it was about this point in the movie that I realized, Louis and Claudia don't exist in this universe either.

Ashley: What? Yep. And so so and they never explained, like, when when the whole coven starts to show up. They never explained who who those vampires are and why they're important. And if you're only gonna include a handful of them, why the hell would you not include at least at the very least, Louis, who everybody knows, if not, introduce some version of our wand. You know, like, it just Oh, it did some of the choices they made were just mind boggling to me at the things that they chose to keep and the things they they they chose to toss. Like, it just seems like, well, no, we already know Louis. Even if Louis doesn't look like Louis, you know, even if it's not Brad Pitt, we still know the character because we've saw that movie. So why the hell would you not have Luggie in there at this point? And Pandora is one of my favorites. I freaking love I can't wait till we get to talk about that book. I love that character. But I was like, why the hell? She's just this is a waste of

Joel: use of her, and then they kill them all. Ugh. Yeah. They literally killed almost all of them. There I think there are three vampires left at the end. That's it. So here's the cast list, by the way, of the of the vampires that we know from the books that are listed in the cast. Here's who you have. You've got Dot is played by Stuart Townsend. Jesse's played by Marguerite Moreau, Acacia is Aliyah, Marriott is Vince Perez, Maharet is Lina Olin, Okay. Now, the others that show up towards the end. First of all, there's only four of them. Right. Like, so the whole you know, the whole articulate of the whole covenant of the articulate is like six

Joel: people.

Joel: Male is there. He's one of them. He's played in this film by Christian Manon. Pandora is the woman with the jewelry, the sort of eastern looking woman. She's played by Claudia Black. Cayman is played by Bruce Spence. And I actually confused Mayl and Cayman in the scene. In my head, I thought, surely, and we'll get to well, you know, we'll go ahead and jump in. There's there's the one guy who's sort of like I I caught him caveman vampire. He looks like he looks a little dazed. He looks like he's covered in dirt the whole movie. I'm really a sort of a strange looking guy. Seems to have some relationship with Jesse, although they never speak. Right? But there's a couple of moments where he touches Jesse in a sort of a protective way. So bizarre, I thought for sure that was Cayman. It's not. It's Mayel. Cayman is presented in all white. And you only really see him in the background. And then once you see him sort of from above as he's attacking Akasha at the end. He's one of the the vampires that goes to attack Akasha and and try to kill her. That is supposed to be Cayman. And he's played by Bruce Brintz. Bruce Spintz you might recognize if you actually go and look up like his IMDP picture or whatever. He is well known for MadMAX two and MadMAX beyond ThunderDome. The guy's like six, seven, he's a very strange looking actor. And he is sort of known for those weird character roles. He's he was in I think the second Matrix movie too. He's been a bunch of stuff. But again, he is so weird looking. I thought for sure that was Cayman. No. They flipped him around. The The other the other actor that or the other vampire there that I thought again, for sure, was maybe Mayel. I don't know. He had the long flowing yellow hair. I thought I don't know. Is that their idea of look like what a druid looks like? That was supposed to be our wand. They did at least get our mind young. But again, if you're gonna put him first of all, how do you have our mind without a relationship to marry us? First, right? And second of all, if you're going to put our mind in this movie, why don't you ever mention him by name? We've literally like, what are you doing?

Ashley: So is that What is the point? Was that the Laura's Tyrell looking

Joel: guy? Yes.

Ashley: Gotcha. Oh, c s

Joel: shortly. Dropped the guy out of the, you know, Tiger beat.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. He looks like Laura's Tyrrells to meet. Ugh.

Joel: And it's the whole just the whole thing so so frustrating. And I I cannot I'm just I'm not okay with it. Here here's the I'm okay. Here's a little bit of praise. Here's a little bit of praise. There's one good joke in the whole movie. Jesse, she gets to Lestat's house. This is gonna be the second time that they will have met. She comes in with the other girl, Roger, the his manager brings the two girls in and Lostat and Jesse start bantering. They're just ignoring the other girl, basically. And Jesse says something to him and then he snipes back at her and calls her a telemaskin like it's a bad word. And the other girl pipes up real quick and goes, I'm gonna piss rebellion. I thought that was the it was the flat, out loud moment in the whole movie. I literally busted my gut. Although that springs off the back of a moment that I think is one of Stewart Townsend's few good ones in the film as well. When he first saves Jesse in the alley, he beats up, kills, or runs off the other vampires, and then he's standing over her this is right after she's, you know, claimed that Marius is her host or whatever. Mhmm. He's standing over her. The other vampires are all gone. She's still hiding her her face and she's like, it's quiet for a second. So she like pulls her hands back away from her eyes and he says, boot. It's not really great. Like, a better actor would have made it a a laugh moment, I think, or a scary moment or something. But still, that was like the one moment in the whole film where I thought, yeah, that's actually the stat. For a moment, that made sense as the character that he is. You know, first of all, he would save the girl and also he would scare her jokingly in that moment there, you know, like that his playfulness. I get that.

Joel: His

Joel: pleasure in his own powers. That's something that I think is very central to the character of Who List Not is. And that was, like, the only moment in the film where it came out, I think. And then, of course, as I was writing down that note, they have an extended sequence that follows that where the stat flies Jesse all around the world before he ever gets the cloud get from Akasha. So will you just tell this freaking story right, please, Paramount, and Hulu, and Christopher, and a n and d, Just tell the just tell the damn story.

Ashley: For Joel's sake, when I when that scene happened, I was like, Joel's gonna be so pissed.

Joel: It's listen. Vampires don't in general fly. They just don't in Ann's universe. That's not a thing that you need to worry about. Until they're like a millennia old.

Joel: Oh

Joel: my god.

Ashley: As I as I continued my drinking game, I feel like my notes got more and more hilarious, at least to me, like, when I jotted down, they keep lighting Stuart Townsend in a way that makes him look like both Daniel Ratcliffe and Kieran Knightly.

Joel: I just had an image in my head of Daniel Ratcliffe and Kieran Knightly put together, and you're right. It's Stuart Townsend. It's insane. They misspoke. They had a baby and he went back to the past somehow.

Ashley: Yeah. I see. And they I obviously this too, going back to Aaliyah, who is absolutely breathtakingly beautiful in this. And I

Joel: Oh, geez. So Josh, it's it's hot. It's just unbelievable.

Ashley: Like that costume, like, she looks she looks Ethan awesome. And the way that they did her makeup and the highlight on her cheekbones. And she looks like she's made almost of of, like, chocolate and bronze. And I just want to stop her up. How the how are pale pasty vampires don't have any sort of good look to them is really kinda sad. Like, they all look like they're they're sweaty and they've been sick for a few weeks and they all have circles around their eyes, like the makeup I I really think they missed they missed the mark and should have really caught that kind of preternatural magic that they were able to do with her, but that they didn't even

Joel: it feels like even try to do with the rest of the vampires. Guess, like Anne's books are very clear. First and foremost, vampires in her universe choose their offspring, specifically for their beauty basically no one is ever born as a vampire. That's not a fairly beautiful individual to begin with, barring Magnus himself who stole the powers. But then also, the blood works a trick on whatever tissue it touches to bring out its luminosity. It's it's beauty. Whatever radiant nature, whatever radiant qualities you have as an individual are magnified and and impressed I think about the transition scene with Gabriel. Right? Like, she goes from lying on the bed dying of consumption or whatever it was that she had, to this vibrant, powerful, immortal being, and the loving nature in which L'Estat describes her beauty and the the radiant that she has there in the room, like, oh, translate that on the screen, please. Just please. Yeah. These vampires looked clammy. Let me let me ask you some so let's talk about something else kinda creepy and and disgusting in the the decor here. I'm about an hour and fifteen minutes in, and it occurs to me that these creepy ass dolls that Jesse had as a kid. It's something you see several times in the film. When you see her flashbacks, she's always got these weird dolls, and then in Maherat's house toward the end. There are there you see a bunch of the dolls again. Where do all these dolls come from if Claudia doesn't, Nick? The only reason those dolls are a part of interview with the vampire is because they were buying them for the vampire little girl. Like, creepy ass dolls is not a thing that that's in this novel just because vampires don't like creepy ass dolls. Was because they had a vampire little girl. Like, none of it's again, it's like somebody watched thirty minutes of this film on cable once. They were, like, I can tell that story. It's totally cool.

Ashley: It'll be fine. The fans won't mind.

Joel: The other thing that I noticed about Mohari and Jesse, by the way, do, like, a foot and a half difference at night. Oh, seriously. And Mahara is the one that's way taller. Like, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think generally across the course of human history, if Jesse is supposed to be like a a two thousand year plus descendant or or really is more like a four thousand year plus descendant of Meharat, She

Ashley: should be like a foot and a half taller than Mariah. Right? Not the other way around. Well, and I think she's even described in the book as being tall. That's

Joel: of I think so too. But I feel

Ashley: like she I think so. I usually take note of that because I'm always sad. Nobody writes cool parts for short character.

Joel: Yeah. They're all Jack Reachers. They're all thirty six and a half feet tall.

Ashley: Yeah. If you're short if you're short, Danny DeVito places you in the

Joel: Yeah. There's two heights. There's, like, there's a runway model and Troll. Those are those are two heights.

Ashley: My experience in the industry.

Joel: Vampires, even the original vampire, by the way, they cannot hang out in the sun. Did you know that? Ashley?

Ashley: I heard that rumor.

Joel: Yeah. I heard that rumor. Whole thing. And yet, here, Listed is just walking around this g d island again ikasha two, and I'm like, the whole point of the introduction of Akasha. The entire point of that character being introduced into this mythos is the fact that once upon a time, all the vampires in the world got burnt because they left her out in the sun. Like, god. What are you doing?

Ashley: Oh, this episode is the episode that makes us growl.

Joel: I will say this, here's the one thing that I do want. There is a moment. There's a really great moment early in the tale of the body thief novel. Where L'Estat goes into the sun for a while. He's he's sort of like a little self destructive, but really he he knows he's not gonna die. He does it mostly as like a a show of penitence, I guess. And also in the Indians up with a great tan, like the rest of the book, he he has a nice tan. And fits in better among humans. But again, the torture of that moment physically for him is a big point in the novel. Like him laying there in the sun and contemplating his own mortality even as he's this incredibly powerful being who's just lived through this interaction with the queen of the damned, etcetera, etcetera, all of that's there. I would like that moment played out on screen eventually. But again, like, you can't you you can't just have a scene where they're walking around in the sun.

Ashley: Yeah. I've forgotten about that. And when when the sun was like, peeking through the the curtains in his eye. I was like, what the hell is what the hell? What the hell is happening? What are we doing? And then he went outside and I almost through my tablet or cross.

Joel: So I I mentioned the the one good laugh line earlier. Here's probably, I think, the worst line in the whole movie, and it's a bad delivery from an actress that I like. Aliyah gives it when she when endlessat burst into the room and all the vampires who are there waiting on them, she says, warms my blood to see you all gathered.

Ashley: That's terrible.

Joel: It's just so bad. Oh,

Ashley: but we can't we have to talk about the terrible Louisiana accents from Lestat's band at the beginning.

Joel: Oh my god. I had forgotten truthfully. I'd forgotten. There's so many other bad accents in this

Ashley: movie. But

Joel: you're right. So and there's, like, three different versions of it too. All three of the actors that speak take a swing at, I guess, they're trying to do New Orleans But, like, one of them sounds like he's from a movie about Ravell that's made by people from Minnesota. And then the other one sounds like you know, he he was in forced gump. And then the third one sounds like, again, he watched a film once about Tennessee Williams or something and said, yeah, I could do a New Orleans accent. Yep. No. They're all terrible. All of them are horrible.

Ashley: I was really happy that we were only subjected to that for a short time. I was really worried. I was like, I can't I can't. Bad southern accents guys being from the south, they're terrible. There's I don't think that there's another fumbling of an accent that offends me more?

Joel: So let's talk about the collection of other vampires there. We mentioned off handedly. Bruce Pence, I I talked about some of his background. You you probably seen him in some other things. The actor who played Maiele, though, the as I called him the caveman vampire, he is a very, very well known, very well established or or was the time I believe he's passed away now. Christian Manon is his name. He's a well known British film stage actors, excuse me, not a film actor or stage actor. That's what he's primarily known for. Claudia Black, as Pandora. I I didn't recognize her at all. Do you know her from from anything else?

Ashley: No. No. Yeah.

Joel: I will say not among the vampires, but the only other really named character in the film that that matters is David Talbot. I thought he was okay. Paul Maguire, excuse me, not Maguire McGahn. Paul McGahn plays him. I thought he was fine. Although, again, they screwed it up with the casting. Right? The whole point is David Talbott's an old man.

Ashley: Yeah.

Joel: And then and then you have to give him a hot, young, he's like a dark skinned guy when he when he gets switched right and telling the body thief. I think he's you know, a young Middle Eastern man of some sort. Anyway, it's just it's just all it's all a miss. It's all a miss basically. Just one gigantic freaking miss for me.

Ashley: Well, I mean, to tackle two essentially, you're tackling two novels with this attempt. They're they're covering parts of the vampire lestat and then going into Queen of the damned, that's too much too much. It's too much material, you know. But I will say, you know, I don't I don't hate how they how they move through those story lines. I think that that wasn't a terrible way to to approach it as far as as timeline and and and and skipping characters here and there. But I do think one hundred percent miss the mark to characterization. And

Joel: and

Ashley: and even, you know, even obviously there's some important moments and important characters that are not included. So that's that's a real a real off piece to to me. But

Joel: I

Ashley: didn't hate I didn't hate the, like, the basic outline, you know, the basic, like, timeline and how they how they moved through these two two stories. I could imagine the

Joel: bones of this plot in much better hands, perhaps with some more nods to the original film. If you if you maintain the continuity, even without the continuity of actors. For instance, you could have used some shorthand from that story to, you know, cut away at things you'd have to reintroduce in this film And I I could imagine a film that would have been satisfying. Absolutely. You're right. The the basic plot line could have worked even as truncated as it is. The one thing they they I think, again, I'll give it a little bit more praise here, they nail the scene and the ending. Where Leshat and Jesse go to see David Talbot. The end of the novel is one of my favorite things where where Leshat's toying with David and offering him immortality. And David is saying no. His will is strong, but at the same time, it's clear there is a large part of him that wants it. Right? He wants to go over. He wants the knowledge of what it's like. He wants to be with Jesse and with Leshad and with the rest of this group. And the actor Paul McGahn does a pretty good job with limited dialogue and with basically no build up for his character really. He plays that well in that final scene. And then, of course, they shortcut that or or stamp on it by sending Marius in to making a vampire. It's just

Ashley: What are you doing? Take take always take it too far. And that yeah. The way that they handled Marius is unforgivable. Like, that's the thing. I just I'm like, that is not Marius. He doesn't look like Marius. He doesn't talk like Marius. He doesn't act like Marius. This is You have really really found up this really great character.

Joel: I I will say this. I've been thinking about it a lot, and I'm pretty sure that you have given us the title for this episode. One of the few things that's good about this movie. It's it's Aliyah herself, and you described it. She's chocolate and bronze. Right? That is Yeah. That is that is the one good thing about about this film, I think. Oh, here's here's one more point. So, okay, Maheratt in the end well, first of all, there's no the the symbolism of the brain and the and the heart are gone. There's there's none of that. Although we do see the one scene in the middle where Akasha eat bites into the heart, you know, it's at least an interesting moment. But Maherat doesn't have to take the brain and the heart from Makasha in order to become the new queen of the dam. She just has to as the Araman character describes it. I think in the film, she took Akasha's death into her is the way he describes it her very last drop or something. There's nothing magic about the last drop of blood, etcetera, etcetera. It's just Ugh. So here's here's the thing. If if you're gonna have this all well, you know what? I'm not even gonna bang on it. Yes. So they turned my heart into a statue too. That was stupid. Let's don't do that. But here's what's good about this movie. I realized as I was meditating on it and thinking about it after the credits are rolling, this movie is the reason why we never got a real sequel to interview with the vampire. Yep. Interview with the vampire, which we watched not too long ago, That movie is full of issues. It was a good film. It holds up even to this day still, but it's not a perfect telling of that story. And a sequel made in the end of the nineties or the beginning of the two thousands, even if it had been more accurate to the story, like you and I had wanted versus what we got in this film, it still wouldn't have been the right version of the story. This movie existing is the reason why this property has sat quietly so long. And it's the reason why Anne was allowed to take the rights back. Nobody else bought it up because this movie was a stinker and ruined it effectively in a lot of people's minds. That is a good thing in the end. It reminds me of this is the the vampiric equivalent of Marvel getting lucky by having all the rights to the original Avengers left behind when they decided to make their movie gamble. Right? Like, they had sold off the rights to everybody. Spider Man and the X Men and and daredevil and all their all the characters that people knew were somewhere else. And they looked and they said, well, what do we got left? And they went, oh, look at that. We got Captain America Black Widow. We got the Hulk, we got Thor, we got Ironman. Turns out that's the original of interest. Maybe we just make that. And that was exactly the rock. The foundation that you can build this giant enterprise on now. This is the equivalent for our stories. Anne's got a chance now. You know, she's got the right team in place. Dee is behind her. Christopher is with her Paramount Studios seems to be giving their all to this project. Hulu, we know the the you know, the cachet that they bring to offer creatives for a high quality series like this potentially. So for all of that, I say thank you to a very very very bad movie.

Ashley: Yes. Thank you for this terrible film because hopefully it brings us better things in the future.

Joel: Okay. Let's Let's go to a little follow-up. We got a couple of pieces of feedback actually that I wanna get to here from folks in the group. And by the way, you can find us there's a link in the show notes, but we're on Facebook to search for articulate coven, or you can go to articulate coven dot com to find all of our episodes and links there as well. Nicholas Danielson in the group says, and he's talking about our last episode about Queen of the damned the novel. He says, this was wonderful. I particularly loved how you pointed out that horrot has the connection to humanity and to others that all other vampires desperately try to create through the dark trick itself. That being said, I would have loved to hear you discuss Akash's personality, her nihilism, and her need to make meaning because of it. I can't wait until the next one. Along those same lines, Leanne Cherry Phillips said, Yay, I was so excited to hear you guys in the new podcast. A cautious plan to squash Patriarchy definitely speaks to today's societal and political climate. I've been wondering how they would choose to handle this in the show. If they would use this as a platform to potentially bring people together, If blood communin is Lastat's words of wisdom for everything he's been through, it's that we all need to get along and have more love and compassion for one another. Sometimes messages like that can fall flat if trying to make a larger political statement. I just want to enjoy the stories for what they are, politics aside. But listening to the podcast, maybe want to go back and reread certain sections that I haven't visited in many years. I just remembered my favorite sections were definitely with Jesse. Was terribly disappointed in how they portrayed her

Joel: character in the

Joel: movie version. Not sure I can bring myself to rewatch the movie for multiple reasons. No shame they are Leanne.

Ashley: They don't play at all.

Joel: So let's talk a little bit about because we did we didn't focus too much on Acacia in the our discussion of the novel. And honestly, on my side, at least it was because in this rereading of it, she fell a little bit flat. I I seemed to remember her as a more compelling figure. But the arguments to me in this reading of the novel, and again, I'm mostly just gonna talk about the novel because of the movie, there's basically no argument at all because There's really nothing from her except for destruction. And then I'm not even really any explanation for why. Like, what is she trying to do? Other than just take that control of the world, I guess. It's just it's very, very odd. In the novel though, when you read her logic as she tries to explain her plan to L'Estat, it is so much less complex or logical or compelling an argument than even Thanos in the recent infinity war movie. And and you and I discussed the sort of the the connection there and the fact that he's trying to basically evaporate half the universe and she wants to annihilate, you know, ninety percent of the male population. But either way, it's so clearly a immature argument. Right? This is this is a child's idea of an explanation and an answer to the world's problems. And so for me, there wasn't very much to hang on in my rereading of it this time. The only thing that was compelling really was the lure of her as a powerful and a a sexual object, an attractive object, and the sheer power that she brings to Lastat. In the same way that he's compelled by being that sort of like angel of death alongside this, you know, deity like figure that's really the only argument I could see is, well, anytime you're confronted with supreme power, it must be sort of compelling to think about joining sides. Right? But if you actually look at the argument itself, I just I feel like there's nothing there to hang it on, and I don't know if that's maybe immaturity in Anne's writing that she couldn't have written a more compelling villain, or if it's just that she that that was a very immature idea and a very immature villain and has portrayed very accurately. It it just didn't hit me so hollow as a child when I was reading it myself.

Joel: And

Joel: I know. What do you think? I

Ashley: think when you look at it from the perspective of, we saw her her as queen, like, send troops out to to annihilate a village. You know what I mean? And so she has this this aspect to her that is dangerous and is she's not afraid. And you're you're also talking about coming from, you know, a millennia before we all live and exist. And so sometimes the solution to problems back in the day were a little bit harsh and maybe an over correction, if you will. I I think part of that is coming from that being her perspective. But I also do think it's a huge nod to the matriarchal way that Anne creates culture in her novels as well. Like, matriarchical societies become very important. Mother figures are are revered. This is this seems like a complete a complete a nod to that, but like this gone in the wrong direction, if that makes sense at all. And I think that, you know, in the time that we live in violence against women is a huge issue, and I think that we're finally talking about it. We're talking about it a lot more. We're talking about, you know, we're talking about hashtag me too, and we're talking about about rape and crime against women and domestic violence and things like that. And and it's and it is. It's like, you can see. Yeah. I can see Thanos' point, would it be simple to wipe out half the population so that we can have we can have, you know, more more goodies, more stuff to spread around amongst us, less poverty, less suffering. But obviously, it's not the correct way to solve a problem. Howard Bauchner:

Joel: No. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. The one as far as like taking the storyline and comparing or connecting it to current politics or or or real world politics, I do think there is the possibility Ashley for a real examination of the view for majority populations or or populations who have traditionally been in the sort of like mainstream as their as it compares to their view of outsider. So I I think about apartheid, for instance, apartheid South Africa, or even, you know, the question of, like, gender equality in western society. I think a lot of people from, like, the men's rights activist angle would tell you that, oh, we can't we can't give into the feminist because then they're going to put us under their thumb. The view is that the oppressed population could never truly live inequality. They could only dominate just as the dominating population has currently or traditionally done so. And that's just wrong. There is this alternative where we could just live in equality, and we could we could live in an actual egalitarian society. And I think that the television series, particularly from the wiser, you know, more benevolent, elder vampires like Maherad and Marius especially. Could make that argument very clearly in opposition to Akasha's view, which would be playing out this sort of like fimenazi idea that a lot of right wing people have of what'll happen if we ever let women get in charge?

Joel: Right.

Ashley: That kind of ex it's an extremist view. It's just like, you know, it's just like anything else. It's it's it's an obviously, she has an extremist take on the patriarchy. And that doesn't isn't necessarily the right way to solve in any problem. Obviously, we have to, you know, not kill all the men.

Joel: Yes. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah. No

Ashley: problem, guys. No problem. I got your backs.

Joel: Let us just strongly say that from this film, I would very much like for you to find us another beautiful gifted actress who could present Akasha as the chocolate and bronze goddess that that Ashley so accurately describe. At Aliyah Petroleum. That is that is one thing I it's gonna be very interesting to see the actors and actresses that step up into some of these roles particularly like Acacia where it could be sort of a short lived thing. You could imagine she could only really be on maybe even one season or or, you know, three quarters of a season even. So that could be a a kind of very high profile name that comes in for a short time and and gets to play in this TV universe. That could be very, very exciting as we move into the actual production, hopefully ramping up soon over the next few weeks and months. Ashley, I think that is about it. We ought to wrap it up on this episode. However, as we look forward to what's next. First of all, of course, we're gonna be talking about the tail of the body thief. That's The fourth novel in the Vampire Chronicles series, that will be our next actual novel discussion. But between here and there, something a a little smaller research project Chris. I'm thinking of going and watching a few episodes of boss, the series starring Kelsey Grammar that d Johnson was a part of. Yeah. Also, specifically, Mars. I'd like to check out some of Mars as well. So maybe you and I go do a little bit of homework on some of those series and episodes that she's had a big role in in the past and get together to discuss some of D. Johnson's work and what she might bring to bear as the new show runner on the Vampire Chronicles TV series coming soon to Hulu.

Ashley: I love it. Let's do it.

Joel: Alright. Folks, you can always email us articulate coven at gmail dot com. Find every episode at articulate coven dot com, and don't forget to join the discussion and our community on Facebook is growing just over a hundred members now. Thanks. Search for Articulate Kevin on Facebook. Until the next time that we talk to you, We've been your host. I've been Joel.

Ashley: I'm Ashley.

Joel: And we are the articular oven.

Joel: Thanks for listening to the Articulate Coveen. You can join our community on Facebook by following the links in the show notes or searching for Articulate Coveen on Facebook. You can subscribe to the show in Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or at articulatecoven dot com. And share us with your An Rice loving friends.