You Can Do THAT on TV? - Ashley and Joel Discuss “Is My Very Nature That of a Devil” - Anne Rice’s Interview with the Vampire S01E03 - AC015

You Can Do THAT on TV? - Ashley and Joel Discuss “Is My Very Nature That of a Devil” - Anne Rice’s Interview with the Vampire S01E03 - AC015

Joel: The Articulate Coveen is the original unofficial podcast and fan community for Anne Rice's interview with the Vampire and Anne Rice's Immortal Universe from AMC and AMC Plus. Welcome to the Articulate Cove. We are your hosts.

Ashley: Ashley Wright Eiler.

Joel: I'm Joel Sharpton, and this is the Articulate Cove. Ashley, oh my goodness. We've got a lot to talk about this episode, but I actually have like, now we're in the thick of things. I know now we're in the thick thick of things because I have some feedback. I have I have some information that has come to light, that needs to come to air early in the episode. So the first thing is a small thing. I have I have dove into the world of of YouTube feedback on this wonderful series that we love. Most of it, they're they're not as profusely excited about it as I am, so they end up making me mad. But One in particular, I did wanna link for our audience. And it's something that I hadn't thought about because I'm just I've read her her work for so long. It almost doesn't doesn't stick out to me. But in episode two, the word printer natural was used to describe L'Estat's charisma. And this YouTuber in particular, who I'm going to link in the comments here, and Ashley, I'll send you the link shortly as well. Okay. She in her review of that episode calls it out, says this must be sort of a reference to the on the part of the writers. To the joke and the fandom. There's apparently even charts online about how many times in each book and uses the word better natural.

Ashley: You can make a drinking game out of it. Exact

Joel: no. Absa once once you think about it, oh, man, she does every time she's describing their powers, she calls it ributor natural. Does it show

Ashley: Oh, one hundred percent. I keep it on that immediately.

Joel: So so what's funny though is the YouTuber explains it, and I I don't know why I'd never I don't know why I'd never questioned the word, honestly. Like, it's a word in context, it's very clear what it means. And yet I'd never I don't think I'd ever looked up the dictionary definition of it. I don't think I'd ever thought about why she uses that word instead of some other word. And this YouTuber planes, and I'm gonna give you the TLDR, but I'm also gonna link it with the time stamp because I strongly suggest you go in and listening to the full thing. But basically, predternatural is just the secular version of supernatural. Supernatural implies that the power, whatever you're describing, that is above and beyond, the natural or expected world, the natural levels of power or strength or whatever, that supernatural ness comes from a deity, either good or evil, the supernatural doesn't say, but it comes from outside. Whereas Anne's vampires are not of god or the devil. They are a very natural occurrence, you know, that we I don't wanna spoil for for folks who are watching this and reading this all at the first time. That does come up eventually in the books. And I think we're gonna get that explanation on on the TV series as well, which will be fun to see it played out in on screen for the first time, really. But anyway, that's the reason she uses the word. It's a secular version of supernatural. And if you think about it, if she had used the word supernatural all those times, I don't think we would have questioned it. I don't think it would be a running joke because, I mean, how how else are you gonna describe the the way that they leap into the air or the way that they cross the floor almost instantaneously or the way that they, you know, their eyes glisten, etcetera, etcetera. Anyway, very interesting. She's got a great explainer. I do I'm I am gonna continue to watch her reviews of this this thing even though she and I she she picks a few more knits than I would care. Too. But overall, she does have great discussion, particularly she's got a very keen eye for the differences between the book and the TV series. So link in the show notes in case you've ever learned it about that word in particular. Go go check that out. That's the first thing. The second thing a follow-up, Ashley, you and I discussed in a previous episode, and I think this was when we were discussing the behind the scenes special.

Ashley: Okay.

Joel: We both expressed an interest to desire to have why has it Chris Rice? Why has it Christopher Rice said anything about the series? Boy, it makes me trepidation about everything and makes me feel a little bit soured here as we're celebrating this thing finally coming. Well, apparently, he may have at least in in coded message. First and foremost, if anyone tweets at him or posts on Facebook about it and tags him in it. He has a very standard response, Right. Not a whole lot of series. Please, I refer you to AMC TV. Absolutely. I haven't listened to all of his podcast episodes. I haven't gone back and trailed this sound, but I saw a thread about this very question on Twitter. And through a little bit of sleuthing, I backed up a couple of things that were said. The general sense is this. And and my own recollection back this up too. Correct me if I'm wrong. Anne was very loud, and Christopher, very loud about the development of the series when it before it was at Hulu, then once it arrived at Hulu and all through that period of time when it was in in production at Hulu, they both talked about it quite a lot. Do you remember that?

Ashley: Yeah. That seems that seems on point that they were kind of it felt like they were much more involved.

Joel: And then they announced the AMC acquisition. And I think they even said more to come soon, you know, let us go behind closed doors and got our eyes and crossed our t's kind of thing. Right. But then after that, they never said anything again. The sense that I got from people working in the industry is that everybody's tried to be very nice and say the right things because nobody wants to offend or burning new bridges that are unnecessary. But it seems like Anne and Christopher both were very, very insistent. On Christopher being a big part of the writing room, maybe even the singular primary part, and that the general feeling at AMC was that that was not a good plan. And -- Oh. -- that eventually came to a head, and that involved the the two rises effectively walking away from the project in person though their their names are still on it as executive producers. And I'm sure there's a huge chunk of change that goes regularly to the Rice estate. Which Well,

Ashley: one would hope so.

Joel: Christopher's. Right? Yes. And I'm I'm imagining I get the sense. And the sense that I got online is perhaps that that those payments are tied to a closed mouth either directly legally required --

Ashley: Right.

Joel: -- or or or just, hey, I know the check's still cash, and I may be, you know, heard about it, but I'll keep my mouth closed as long as this thing is, you know, a success. So either way, Here's I said this before without knowing. Now I feel like I've got a better glimpse of what's gone on there, and I still feel as I felt then. Chris gets to feel any way that he wants to about this series and that is absolutely fair. I also feel in my heart and I go I think back to you know, Anne was famously super upset about the casting of Brad Pitt and Tom

Ashley: Crow's. Yeah.

Joel: And, like, disavowed the production entirely, told her fans that that everyone in Hollywood would sell their own mothers, you know, for for a a penny, whatever. They were all heartless. It was terrible. It was gonna be ruined. And even though she had been involved in the production up to that point, she had been pretty heavily involved. I think I mean, her name's on the screen place still, if you watch the movie. So anyway Wow. And then what happened? That production got finished or almost finished. They sent her a screener. She ate all of her words to got an eight page ad in the newspaper and praise the film and apologize to everyone involved especially Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt and told her fans, please, please, please. Listen to me now. Forget what I said before. This is a, you know, a loving portrayal of my characters, etcetera, etcetera. I think the same thing would be going on now. I think if when she saw the care that was provided to these characters, the clear love that these actors have especially, and that the creators have, and that the the meticulous you know, production levels that are being brought to this. I can't help but think that she would be pleased by it. And so Chris gets to feel how he wants to feel, how I'd be mad if I lost my shot maybe at a big job in Hollywood. I mean, if this was his success and he was one of the writers, he would have a long career in Hollywood probably.

Ashley: Absolutely. But here's the thing too about, like, I mean, I know enough about the television industry to know that a writer's room is a very finicky place. You know what I mean? It really does require the right assortment of people. And you really have to trust, you know, the show runners to be to make those decisions. And I just I hope that, yeah, a hundred percent agree. Chris gets to feel how he wants to feel. Christopher can feel how he wants to feel. I hope that I hope that he ends up being pleased by this, and I hope that I hope that, you know, this regardless of this. You know, his career is on the trajectory he wants. He's he just released a new book recently, you know. I mean, I THINK THAT GETTING TO TELL HIS OWN STORIES MAYBE LONG TERM MIGHT BE MORE IMPORTANT TO HIM.

Joel: I HOPE SO AS WELL. AND AGAIN, I THINK I I don't know the dollar figures, but you can't you can't help the margin. There's going to be some recurring revenue from

Ashley: this from this Money money money

Joel: rice universe. Yeah. Interestingly enough, I'm I'm not really an erotica reader generally, but I did download his last his last audio book went on Super Sale on Audible for, like, I don't know, it's like five dollars or something. And I was like, I like Chris. Let me go let me go download his book and listen to it. And I don't I don't know who the audio the the narrator is. I haven't I haven't dove into it yet, but I'm hopeful it'll at least have some steamy scenes in it. God knows

Ashley: that I'm

Joel: rereading I'm rereading the the witching hour right now. I'm almost done. I'm like four hours remaining. And his mother oh goodness. That woman wrote some funny stuff, man. I

Ashley: for real. And I love it. Love it. Love it. It's so great. I would've what did I he had a really funny tweet about that a few years ago that she responded to that was just, like, you know, how many of your of your boyfriends or, you know, I I don't remember the whole ins and outs of it, but it was so freaking funny and she responded to it. Was just it was such a brilliant exchange between the two of them. But, like, yeah, is she writes some she wrote some real thoughts, and it's awesome. I love it.

Joel: Well, it's it's it's it is. It is fantastic. Some of it is not my particular cup of tea. As I told someone the other day, though, about this series, this to the TV series. I don't like the Yuck People's Yum! And clearly, Anne's and's expression was was vast. Let's put it that way. I'm I'm a manager and Christian is capable of that same thing too. Alright. Let enough of that preamble, Ashley, let's get into the episode because this was a good one. Non spoiler first? What did you think?

Ashley: Again, I felt like I had a great time. Love it. Love it. I do feel like this was kind of one of those Like, this is a an episode to get us it's a transition episode. It's to get us to the next section of the story. So it set up a a conflict that we that we need to see. It kind of kind of pushed those things along. We kind of a lot of things shook out exactly the way that I thought they were going to as far as what happens with the club and Storyville and all that. That was kind of how I thought that they were gonna head with the time change and everything. And and, yeah, I had had a good time It wasn't as, like, thrilling and exciting as the last couple of episodes were. But but, yeah, it was still really rich and it really moved the story along. We got some really great funny moments. We got some really great poignant moments. We got some really great sexy moments. So Yeah. Two thumbs up over here. How about you?

Joel: I'm with you almost a hundred percent. Absolutely. So there was there was speculation based on one of the season trailers. There's like one shot in one of those season trailers where Louis appears to be injured very badly. And there was a tremendous amount of speculation I'd seen online amongst the fandom. That this episode's plot line was gonna go thusly. They were going to sort of explore an open relationship for one reason or another. And that L'Estat was gonna be jealous and beat the ever living hell out of Louis. Oh, I was I I thought it was possible that they were going to go there. I mean, this is a I think this story is is at least the beginning of their relationship. Is toxic. There's no

Ashley: doubt that they're

Joel: both they're both very broken people and they misuse one another. But I was worried that that First of all, that plotline is not directly in the book. I mean, nothing like that really happens in the books. And the idea of of L'Estat being directly physically violent to Louis, abusive to Louis, using his physical power, you know, literally to do violence against him. That bothered me. I mean, Lestat's done a lot of things. I mean, he's burnt down Louis' house a couple of times in the books. I think

Ashley: Lestat's a hundred percent. It's a total asshole. He's your he's your crazy ex boyfriend. You know?

Joel: Yeah. But I don't but I don't think he I don't

Ashley: I

Joel: agree. Stop my head anyway. Those stuff my head anyway would not do that. And so I was worried that's where this episode was going. This episode does not go there. And

Ashley: so if you

Joel: have been, like, hesitant to watch this episode because you had heard that speculation as well. You know, no worry about that particular resolution. So go and watch it. We both

Ashley: enjoyed the

Joel: episode. There's lots of good

Ashley: stuff. Weirdly weirdly out of character. You know what I mean? He's more of a, you know, an emotional abuse, sir. That's more our guy's style. You know, and and he will torture shit, but I don't think he'd beat you up. Yeah.

Joel: No. No. He will absolutely burn something down, but he'll wait until you're not there in it.

Ashley: Yeah. He's gonna he's gonna lease a left eye up as your your mansion, but other than that, it's gonna be fine.

Joel: So this episode was directed by Keith Powell. Keith also directs episode four, the one coming next week. So there was some continuity there. And

Ashley: then -- Right. -- I like that. That's good to go.

Joel: So Game of Thrones has done that. I know Breaking Bad has done that in the past. I think Better Call Saul did the same sort of thing. And it I think particularly in this current version of long form storytelling narrative that we're we're getting with these sort of TV series. I think it makes sense. You know, it's like they're making a mini movie. Why not? You know, allow them to shoot it that way. They get I think it totally works. And this one was written by Hannah Moskovic. Hannah also will write episode five, two weeks away. So they've they've got some continuing I mean, again, it's as you mentioned earlier, Ashley, it's a writer's room. So I think a lot of those writers are contributing to all of these, but it it's about the amount of the script. I think that that somebody's actual panel or --

Ashley: Oh, yeah. --

Joel: keyboard is on. I think that there's a union matters that determines who gets the the head credit. Anyway, let's dive into it. So again, like I said, the speculation of this episode had me really, really concerned, but that turned out, like, largely not to be true. I love this episode. Honestly, the humor, the there was

Ashley: a lot of drama. Funny.

Joel: The drama, the continued micro hints by the way, at the modern day circumstances of Louis, I think in this episode, we're great. There's like little bitty ones we'll talk about later. I love what the show is building, both in the present day story and in the past story. It just makes me super confident. Honestly, it makes me more confident in the forthcoming Mayfair adaptation as well. Like, I this team this team has me on board. I'm down for the changes that they feel like needed to be made.

Ashley: Yeah. I don't love I'll tell you the one thing I'm kind of about with the Mayfair thing is is that I don't like combining combining characters that really annoys the piss out of me. I just hate it. It's so poorly done usually.

Joel: I'll agree with you. I'll agree with you, but there are first and foremost, like in the interview with the vampire here, I think you wanted a person of color in that main cast and I think the the quote unquote Michael character, the the love interest for Rowan, is the that is the character to do it. I also think the things that make both Aaron and Michael integral to the overall story, can fairly easily be combined into one character, there's no reason why this character couldn't come from the wrong side of New Orleans originally. Right? There's no reason this character couldn't have the Now, here's some spoilers for that book, but there's no reason that that character couldn't have the may fare background as well, you know, distancing, etcetera, etcetera. But those two characters spend so much of the first book particularly just sitting down telling each other what they both know. I mean, like, honestly, there's so much of, like, well, you know, this is Michael, and let me tell you, Aaron, what I know about everything. And then Well, this is Aaron, and let me explain to you Michael what I know about things. And there's like a whole lot of that.

Ashley: I just feel like Aaron's such a And maybe it's because Aaron we see Aaron in the Vampire Chronicles. Yes. Well, you know, I just feel like he's a fully developed character. It's kind of hard for me to see him being kind of I don't know. I'll be interested to see how they do it. Yes.

Joel: But but

Ashley: -- I was -- and one skepticism.

Joel: That I was super skeptical about that too, and and I was fine with, like, you you know, changing a character like they did with Louis, moving a time line, which but by the way, they've done that clearly in the Mayfair series as well because Cortland is not alive in the modern day storyline. And yet, Cortland, the Harry Hamlin's character plays a big role there. So, like, they compacted. I think some of the generations are moved moved some things around. Anyway, my point is, these these these creative team continues to win me over. And so as skeptical as I am of those sorts of things, I'm like, I bet they've got a good reason. I bet they're gonna they're gonna take us to a good place.

Ashley: Oh, yeah. I think anytime like I said a couple of episodes ago, anytime I have had, like, any moment of, like, oh, I don't know. They've been, like, they've come back either within the next fifteen, twenty minutes to soothe me about it and explain why they did it. Or in the next episode. So I I definitely feel like we're in good hands. I obviously still trust our team completely. Yeah. This episode was with a lot of emotion and a lot of fun, and then a lot of a lot of passion and and and and and then disagreement. Good times. Good times sad by all.

Joel: I love I love the opening scene. They're on the bench and their, you know, list dot is expanding the history of the square.

Ashley: Just their fiscal relationship plays so brilliantly. Like, they're clearly as actors very comfortable with each other physically when they sit near one another, when they sit in proximity and they're when they're, you know, they just look like they belong together. You know, they look like a pair. And it's so it's so wonderful to see to see that being portrayed so well and so cleanly.

Joel: I'm a million percent on board with that. I'd like an agreement with that. And here's what's crazy too when you think about these guys were cast on a Zoom call. Like, they're they're chemists

Ashley: During COVID.

Joel: We're over zoomed during COVID. Exactly.

Ashley: They said they got so much of you guys are this smoldering together.

Joel: Right. I mean, like, you get yes. They come off the screen to go anyway. Alright. So but it seems there. I love what Louis doing. It seems like he's basically ignoring L'Estat. He literally mhmm. At one point, and then he comes in with this cutting remark directly relevant to what LaSalle is saying. Oh. Yeah. Have you read the part about how they cut off slaves heads, runaway slaves heads, and put them on the pikes as a warning? Unless that's like, I haven't gotten there yet. Let me see.

Ashley: Let me see if that's in this article. Yeah. Yeah. I'll he's always I like that that's something that they're not willing to let us forget, but Louis won't let us forget the difference between he and Liztte, regardless of the fact like you like we've discussed before regardless of the fact that he is this elevated version of a human and that he is a vampire. He is still a black man. Fucking dealing with asshole white people in New Orleans. You know?

Joel: Oh my god. There's there's so much of that in this episode especially

Ashley: when it comes

Joel: to a boil in a way that You know, well, and it's and it's interesting, you you referenced it earlier, the passage of time and how that's going to change things. And it it really calls out the fact that there was this strange period of time in Louisiana where because of and I I wonder if the show's gonna play more with this eventually. They've they've basically done it with one passing line so far. You know, Louis family got the power that they had basically because their family also bought into white supremacist system. They were a different kind of colored than the other guys who they maintained as slaves. I mean, his his grandfather or whatever owned plantation and owned slaves to run that plantation. You know? And so that continued like, he reaches out here in this episode to try to do something for his people, quote unquote, unless that calls him out on, those aren't too

Ashley: useful. Those aren't too people like that. People? But also, like

Joel: But also, you're he's misguided in his direction. It kinda it reminds me in some ways this episode and Louis sort of art in it. Of like Batman batman is like I have to save Gotham and any smart character Harley Quinn does it in the animated series recently like hey have you thought about low cost housing? Maybe, you know, have you thought about mental health programs in the city? You're a billionaire, Wayne. There's a lot of things that you could do actually to fix this city other than going out and punching poor people in the face. Yeah. And that's sort of like

Ashley: Like a douche.

Joel: Right. And that sort of Louis Louis Louis, like, oh, I'll fix this city. How's he gonna do it? With violence? Like, that's not that's not how he could save New Orleans. That's not he doesn't do anything for his people in this episode. Anyway, I love that we get there. One quick change I wanted to take your temperature on though, Louie here in this first discussion sort of brings up the idea and pitches it to L'Estat of killing only the evildoer. Now he doesn't use that terminology because that's a very list dot phrase. But he basically says like, what you know, maybe we should be more selective in who we eat. And then he goes about showing that idea to list dot. And then doesn't follow through with it either. But do what do you think about that? That's obviously a change from the book, L'Estat, and the book is already doing that at this point. And even pitches that idea to Louis. I I believe in interview.

Ashley: It's literally the first thing I have written down in my note, and I literally haven't written trying to hunt the evildoer. Nice. I do think it's it shows us how how our guy, Louie, just really struggles with with the reality of being a vampire and and the morality of it and all of that. And anytime even when he's, like, they're they're going on punching. They pick the sky. They're gonna eat them. Boo yeah. List dad breaks his neck and it's the most comically horrifying thing to see, and and Louie still turns around and eats a cat. Wait.

Joel: Wait. Wait. Pat. Lastat says I wrote this down. I love it so much. Here's your criminal biscuit. See how it looks. Just

Ashley: criminal biscuit. Yes. I'm so hilarious. So it's so funny. I do think that, like, obviously, LaSalle is, like, making fun of it, but I think that that also could be one of those things we're seeing the story through Louise eyes. And also that could be a really great way of, like, him him messing with Louise and just kind of, you know, giving him a hard time about his rat eating habits. I'm just like him just getting that freaking, like, a cage of rats and just housing like a six pack of rats. Jesus Christ. There are better things to eat my guy.

Joel: I cannot wait until one of the more modern, you know, scientifically minded vampires begins to explain to him, hey, you know, animals are all conscious too. Right? Like

Ashley: Only thing when he ate that cat was that was probably somebody's cat, man. That was You're right.

Joel: Like, that's

Ashley: not even at this

Joel: even astray probably yet.

Ashley: Like, you dick. Just turn around the meat of pork fat.

Joel: So you mentioned it there too. I wonder and there are a couple of things in this episode, especially that make me think we're going to see down the road whenever Lestat takes over narration, whether that be in a future season or a flashback episode, or I I honestly still think we're gonna get a full Lestat spin off. This Sam Reid is too fucking good not to get his own show. I've and quickly. He's so -- Yeah. -- he comes off the screen. So he's distracting to me. Like, I am a fairly straight man, Ashley. And that man is distracting. It's hard for me some time to listen to him because I just wanna watch his lips move anyway. Alright. Of course. I've expressed my fangirlness.

Ashley: Yeah. No. I'm with you. There was this one point that he in a scene with Louis where he's so he's so passion filled and his eyes. I and it might just be me being being just caught up in it. But it literally looked like his eyes were brimming with, like, blood tears. And I was like, holy shit. You're killing

Joel: me right

Ashley: now, my man.

Joel: We're skipping ahead slightly, but wait, I wrote that one down too. He says he says, god, what's the line? He says, I heard your heart's dancing. That was the

Ashley: most Oh, yes. Yes. And his freaking eyes were just like, filled with blood tears. Oh, I love that attention to detail. You know, like, that's just oh, that's just it just shows that they're telling the right story. They're just telling

Joel: Well, what's funny there what's funny there too is that Sam had expressed during the production he'd expressed doubt that the contacts were gonna work because he's like, it's gonna cut down on so much of our expression. And there is a perfect example of how whether they're adding, like you say, whether that's blood tears and makeup or whether that's CGI even or whatever whatever they're doing, it well, you felt everything from him in that moment. So absolutely beautiful. It

Ashley: even felt like his eyes changed color like they got

Joel: -- Yes.

Ashley: -- more intense during that scene. It was like, I don't know if they if that's something that like you said, they tweaked the CGI or they changed out as contacts throughout that scene, but it just They just it was like this eyes just turned on, you know, and and that's something that Anne's been so much time describing. You know, our our are beautiful vampire's eyes, and it's so awesome to see that on the screen the right way.

Joel: So there's a moment later in the episode where Daniel asks Louis, was it raining or not? Oh. Louis Louis sees mud on L'Estat's boots, and he sort of recollecting. And you see the exact same scene played both with the rain and without the rain. I

Ashley: think whenever

Joel: we get that whatever we get, let's start telling his story. Again, whether

Ashley: that's a

Joel: spin off or whatever, I think we're going to see some of the scenes of this season specifically. Replayed ever so slightly differently. So for instance, this moment where where Louis is pitching the idea of eating the evildoer to L'Estat, I think List A is gonna be like, no, bitch. That was my idea. A hundred and fifty years before you ever

Ashley: existed. I've been doing it. Do it. Fewer. Yeah. Yeah. I think that I and I hope that's how it is because that immediately, like, struck me and I was like, this is such great storytelling. This is so fun. Yes. It's

Joel: been doing it. Exactly. Yes. No. It's absolutely this is this is hell of fun. And I love I I think that's exactly what this what the what the creators are going towards here. I think they're telling us, Louis is an unreliable narrator even here in the future when he's saying oh, I understand the stop better. I understand myself, better circumstances have changed, etcetera, etcetera. I think clearly in this episode, he's still not a hundred percent on things all the time.

Ashley: And and And Daniel

Joel: points out policy of recollection.

Ashley: Yes. That's I was just about to bring that up. Daniel points out Their dynamic is abusive, you know, in in some ways. This is a very abusive relationship and and especially in the story that he was told originally. In the story he was told fifty years ago, this was elastat came across as a very abusive person, the empire partner, whatever. And so he brings that up, and then and then we start comparing the two interviews to each other, which I thought was so interesting. And even the way Louis speaks in those first recordings are so flat and lifeless and dull compared to the way Louis is telling this version of the story.

Joel: I agree. There it's interesting when they had played clips from the interviews before in the previous episodes, I I hadn't really noticed a difference in Louis' voice. I just thought the little bit of difference I was hearing there was the clarity of the tape. But it's clear when they were playing it in this one, that his voice has also changed. You know, a a bunch of different ways, his accent slightly different. His

Ashley: -- Right.

Joel: -- you know, like, his his speech rhythms are different, etcetera. It's it's clear to me and there again other parts of this episode that make it even more clear. This Louie is more at one with his vampire nest. He's a much stronger vampire now than he was then, both mentally, but also physically, clearly.

Ashley: Absolutely. And I think we're even seeing I love I love that phrasing the odyssey of recollection, you know, and how I mean, I even see it within myself when we remember things, and as time goes by more and more, we remember the things that were good about a situation rather than the things that were bad. And we tend to kind of as time passes and as memory changes and as we learn and we grow and we forgive the people that maybe were involved in our past, that we remembered things in a different way when we give a little bit more grace to the situation. We have a different version of that memory.

Joel: Absolutely. You know, the other thing that occurs to me in this scene, especially because Daniels so they go back and forth about what you said then, what you said now, etcetera, etcetera. And then he literally throws the tapes away and and list and Louis says now he's being performative. And so Right. Pointing out, I didn't think about it at first, but then, clearly, Daniel catches his meaning. He then goes and drags the files themselves to the trash

Ashley: trash computer

Joel: and throws that away too. But I like that so first of all, I didn't think about this at all, but I saw someone on Twitter that said it. Oh, this is the writers and the show runners. Literally slapping fans in the face. They're throwing the novel away.

Ashley: So We're we're throwing the first version of the interview away. It's not the novel. Being right? Yes. No.

Joel: And listen. And listen. That's exactly what happens in the books too. Right? Anne does this herself through the voice of Leshat in interview with the vampire or sorry. And in the vampire Leshat. Where he goes, everything that you read in an interview with the vampire is trash. That Louis was heartbroken. Yeah. He was he was heartbroken and mad at me and being petty and I can't believe that he wrote those words. That's

Ashley: my esthetics girlfriend.

Joel: You know her? He was tilted and and mind had been in his ear for a decade. He was he was really shocked. So, I mean, I think that's what the show runners are doing there. They're showing us that this show is taking place further along in the timeline when when L'Estat has said that, yes. But now here is Louie even saying, Yeah. I was full of shit for most of that. That that was performative. You know? I've already told that get

Ashley: worried or young. You Point eight that answers. So foolish shit when we're young. And and and as much as he hated being a fledgling vampire, you're still full of shit when you're young. We all are. It's a universal spirits, and I like that vampires are too.

Joel: I agree. I agree. We

Ashley: all have to be stupid. We all have to be stupid.

Joel: You know, so there there is a a moment, I guess, I think it happens right before that scene with Daniel where or maybe right after honestly, I can't I can't remember. It's the the first scene where L'Estat has clearly gone and slept with Antoinette. And then afterwards, he Louis meets him outside. Louis, thinking that he's burnt until yeah. I thought he's oh, she burns fast. No. I don't know. You look for yourself. It's a dentist. There was a dental conventional town. That was all very funny. But Lou Lusattice has something there. When Louis asked him, you know, am I not enough? And Lestat just laughs his head off. But then he once he comes down and he really he realizes, okay. I'm Actually, I'm hurt and Louie here. Let me explain myself. He says, we'll be together ten thousand nights, a hundred thousand. What we're doing is hard. And I love that because whether you're vampires or not, yeah, long term monogamous or even poly relationships are very very difficult. They're, you know, continuous positive affirming acts. And that's what it takes to be in love with each other for a hundred thousand nights, you know. And these two immortal chortleheads don't do it very well. At first, at least, you know They

Ashley: don't communicate well, our guys. You know? And I think it is about the things that I understand about polyrelationship so that you you have to be they have to be, you know, a certain set of rules that everybody's following and and to buy everybody's you know, on the same page with it. And it just seems like L'Estat starts Louis out in a poly relationship without Louis. One hundred percent consent right away.

Joel: Well, it's so interesting to me. I Kelly and I my wife and I were discussing it after we watched it today, and I was like, it's so funny because both of these guys, they can't speak to each other, they can't read each other's thoughts anymore. Right? That that got called out in the last episode. And both of these guys do these little things and think to themselves, it's nothing. It's performative. L'Estat has a raging libido and Louis has admitted that his has waned because of his dietary habits currently. And so -- Right. -- let's not freaking walk around hoarding here. And Antoinette's a beautiful little thing. Lastat is also ketcononically, especially now in this episode they call it out. He is is bi or or pansexual. He he likes a little variety as he says here. And so, like, for him, this is it's functionary. It's like going to the bathroom.

Ashley: Right.

Joel: And he thinks nothing of it. And so surely, Louis wouldn't either. Meanwhile, Louis is insanely jealous because he thinks is Antoinette providing something that I can't? Is this what L'Estat really wants? You know, I'm I'm I'm failing him as a vampire and a fledgling. I'm failing him now in the bedroom, etcetera, etcetera, like he's all in his head. Meanwhile,

Ashley: this leads completely into the introduction of Jonas character. And and the reverse of this happening with with Lostat. It's it's the difference in Lostat's mind between a physical thing and an emotional connection. And Louis is jealous of the physical thing, but doesn't really recognize that L'Estat might be hurt by the emotional connection.

Joel: Well, first of all, Louis doesn't really feel the emotional connection other than here's here's what I think L'Estat does sense that Louis is getting from Jonah specifically. With Jonah, Louis is not other. Right? But even with L'Estat, even though they're both vampire, in this series, L'Estat and Louis will always be other, at least, especially in this time period. Right? At this time in Louisiana, they cannot walk together as equals. They're looked at as strange. Anyone that knows the fact that they're together thinks these hidden thoughts about oh, they're sodomites and oh they're this and oh they're whatever. You know, blah blah blah blah. And yet, walking with Jonah, no one would think anything of it. He's --

Ashley: Right. --

Joel: he's comforted by the sameness and the shared experience. But it's not for Louis. And I actual emotional romantic connection with Jonah as he puts it. He gave me face and I dropped him off.

Ashley: Well, I do think I think in some way he's minimizing that too, because I do think there is something to be said for the emotional fulfillment that you get from comfort. From being comforted and finding comfort in another. And I think that part of that connection was that it reminds him and takes him back to when he was not this monster that he feels he is now?

Joel: Yes. No. There is absolutely, you know, it's interesting. Louie writes it off to the stat as we had some early fumbles. But if there's something about that, like, quote unquote first love or high school romance or whatever, especially when you're wounded. You know, you come back from college after a bad break up or you failed a class or you didn't get the role you wanted because we were theater kids or whatever it is. You go back home for a long weekend or a or a holiday or something. You bump into them at the store and it's like, Well, I mean I could feel like I could feel like the queen of of homecoming for this weekend. You know, that would not be a bad thing, actually. I could be praised about all the ways that I've advanced in life and, you know, how I've gone beyond our fumbling experiences, etcetera, etcetera. And so, yes, you're right. I think Louis gets that. But even there too, I think that's about power dynamics. Right? He in so many ways is the weakened partner in the L'Estat relationship.

Ashley: Well, and we're told absolutely. And in this one, he has the power because he even says that they had an age difference. So he met Jonah when Jonah was younger than him. So, obviously, there he has had the power in that relationship to start with.

Joel: There's two more things I wanna call out with with the Jonah storyline specifically. First of all, I love that he says he's interested. One of the reasons he signed up for the army was European sensibilities.

Ashley: European laws about what

Joel: you they care less about what you look like or who you look at. I think this is one of the hints at what Louis will find so compelling about traveling to Europe. This is what he will see. He and Claudia can imagine a place where they can be more free. I think that's going to be

Ashley: the place for

Joel: Europe, primarily. In the book, it's very, very much about the origins. He know he believes that there are old vampires there. I think some of that will still come into play, but I think this idea, the European sensibilities, I think that's gonna be the bigger draw for them to go to Europe whenever that comes up down the road. Second of all, boy. This show continues to surprise me with the sex.

Ashley: Oh, man. We don't see anyone else. This

Joel: on

Ashley: AMC. Has any like, how I need to know that. Normal. I need to know. I need someone to report.

Joel: I'm gonna have to have a very uncomfortable conversation with my aunt. She's watching it on cable. I know. I don't know. We'll talk about that. So what what did they what did you hear exactly? So so we don't see what Jonah does to Louis in the Bayou there, but we damn sure hear it happening. AMC I am here for it. From

Ashley: I'm It sounded like the blowjob in the bushes from Joe millionaire. I was like, what is happening? Is I mean, am I hearing the the Joe Millionaire blowjob in the bushes.

Joel: Yeah. I believe I believe on TikTok. I believe on TikTok, they call that that gag, gag nine thousand. I think it's telling her.

Ashley: That's what the kids call it. That's oldies. Watch just sitting there. Record. Really? Awesome. Oh my god. They're not. They're really not fucking around. And I'm here for it. Like, I don't mind. Give me a little soft core action. I'm a rebel hammerman.

Joel: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well and, I mean, again, like, if you And and anyone who calls this out is like, oh, what a change? The the vampires don't fuck in the books. As we said before, look They're so sensual in the book. They do they're super central, but also, like, you we just talked about Ian's writing, man. She was freaky dinky in all of her books. This shit is in there. It's it's text, not subtext. And I'm glad

Ashley: that you're

Joel: doing it here in the series. It's not overdone. It's done as part of the storyline. Both the Jonah and the Antoinette thing They were central to the plot line for this episode. And I think central to the ongoing development and and, you know, building and breaking of Louie and Loustache collaboration, which is what this series is about.

Ashley: Yep. Alright. So Yeah.

Joel: One other little thing there, Antoinette, by the way, played here by Laura Grace Athora Athari. I I wanted to call her out. I feel like I recognized her from something. I looked up her IMDB and I couldn't find it, so I don't know. In the novel, she's got a part still to play. Do you remember what I'm talking about? I wonder if she's going to hear as well. She's she's still alive, by the way, at the end of this, like, list out. She's still alive, but doesn't kill her.

Ashley: Oh.

Joel: So I don't know. I don't know. But I would be would be I wonder if Antoinette's not gonna appear in a future episode. Let's just say that. The other thing in this area that we we haven't discussed is when Daniel and Louis are having the converse excuse me, the conversation about the the tapes, Louis says now who's performing, and then, like, you know, they throw away the thing on the trash can on the computer, excuse me. And then Louie uses the fire gift to light the trash can on fire?

Ashley: Yes. He does.

Joel: Louis does not have the fire gasket, not

Ashley: even? No.

Joel: Not even in, like, the most recent books. So hold that thought because some folks don't haven't read all the books we're gonna talk about that in the Easter egg section in a minute. I think I think maybe again that's a hint to some changes that are coming interesting stuff there. What else? Oh, I love the line. And again, it makes it canonical that the status is bisexual. Why do you imagine what do you imagine confines us to a single note? Why not a chord? Why not a cluster? I thought that was awesome.

Ashley: Yeah. They're real I yeah. It's just such great. Just like, I love I love that these characters are being allowed to be who they are. It's just so nice that there's not, like, a muffler on them. You know? Like like, we're really allowing these characters to be as robust and as full of life even though they are not, as, you know, as we've always imagined them to be. So

Joel: what did you think about the scene at the Duloc residents. Louie goes back to see Grace and the twins. He's missed the birthday party, sadly. Because as mama du Lac says, he was supposed to come around here during the daytime when people are awake.

Ashley: Yes. Yes. Well, obviously, there's a bit of a problem there that he cannot. We had to see this happen. It feels like the only thing for me is that it feels like it kinda came out of nowhere. I don't think we've seen quite enough for my taste of this tension in this relationship building. We just have the sense that he's not been there. And it's the lack of him of his involvement that has pushed her to, you know, to deny him as her son. I don't know. It just seems it seems like too much too soon. I know it's it's earned in some ways, but it in some ways it's not. I know that mama has her instincts about about how everything how everything he's doing is wrong in her eyes and what she thinks, you know. And so I just I feel like it just kind of escalated just to scosh too quickly, but I know we have to go there, and I know that that's what leads to everything that happens next, you know, with our our fire and and this is gonna be our introduction and our lead in and Claudia. And so this is this is the right timing of it. I just wish there was, like, one or two more scenes with the family in the last episode or in maybe the beginning of this one.

Joel: Yeah. I feel like and see, this is something I didn't think about on first viewing, but I watched the second time today, and I felt the same way that that was it was a little bit rushed. You understand why? And again, none of this even happens in the books. His family's all gone effectively -- Right. -- at the beginning. You know, Paul dies early and that's that's the end of his family's involvement. But the role and we've discussed this too in the books played by the Feneer family here played by Grace and her husband who is a Feneer. So they're sort of doing the same thing there. But tying it into Louie's mortal life directly, making his mom kinda the bad guy by by calling out the evil directly and and pissing off Louie there as he comes into the house. I I guess the only way they could have done it really in retrospect if you think about it is if they had involved the family some way in the launch of the Azalea. Right? Like, if when he opened his big fancy business, if he had brought the family in and there had been a scene where Momma Dulak is turned away completely like her nose is rubbed in the sin that her son is selling, you know? Maybe that's the moment where she's like, you really are of the devil when she she's sort of hinted to that already. In the last episode, there's the reference to she's mad because he's clearly gay and that's pissing her off. But, like yeah. I'm with you. I would've liked one more scene. Maybe that'll end up being on a in a deleted scene somewhere they they just had to cut it for time. But on streaming, you can let these things live. So Right.

Ashley: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Joel: We're back in the We're

Ashley: here we're here for your additional scenes that were cut. We are we want give them to us. Alright. So I really I know we have to and I feel like all this is leading into the burning of the Azalea, which all mirrors the burning of the plantation, you know, in the in the book. And so we're getting ourselves right back on track for anybody that was concerned the story wasn't going to kind of follow the same path that it does. You

Joel: know the one thing that that makes me question though, how are they going to do this? What so in the book, the the plantation workers, the the slaves, largely in the servants, decide that Louis and L'Estad are evil in some fashion. They don't have the word vampire. I don't think, but they know something's going on and then dead bodies are piling up and that they're responsible for it, etcetera, etcetera. And they end up forcing them out, you know, through a sequence of events, burn a plantation and Louis and L'Estat escape to the Feneer House at first and then to New Orleans. Well, now that they've been sort of forced out of their societal position a little bit through the events of this episode. Where are they going to escape to? I mean, I they're gonna stay in New Orleans for these next

Ashley: time. Right.

Joel: I'm certain because we've seen, you know, parts of the trailer with Claudia in it. So, anyway, I'm interested in how their lives are gonna continue there. Since Louis has been

Ashley: Well, I wonder if we'll have

Joel: so public apart.

Ashley: If we'll have maybe a if we'll have, like, a staged death, you know, and then, like, that that kind of reverse thing where you just you know, and it's not like they can't live on L'Estat's money. He's Rich's hell, you know. And so it'll be inter it'll be interesting to see how they but you're totally right. I mean, where where the hell that they're supposed to go to New Orleans was where they went. But I can just kinda see them sort of turning more inward and it being much more focused on on you know, it's kind of like the home life starting up. You know, you you got married. Now you have a kid. You're about to have a kid. The kid's on the way. We all know. You know, and so it's that kind of maybe turning inward into, like, into their own space, into their apartments, into their lives with each other in Claudia.

Joel: Yes. Yes. I absolutely agree that that's where the the show is headed. It's I'm just I am captivated to see how they do it. And

Ashley: some performances in this were so fantastic. I love his his, like, his brothel manager She is amazing and hilarious and brilliant when they were like, at that poker game, you let a woman count your money.

Joel: What was her name, Brick House, or was it just Briggs?

Ashley: I am not sure I need to look that up. But she's brilliant. I love that I love that performance. That actress was brilliant. I love how she stood up for her girls. She's a girl for the girls.

Joel: No. I keep I I have Christine Pussies walking my floor. I take offense at that. I thought that was hilarious. The other line that I thought was so good. She says, I've been called a cow, a honey, and some oh, and the and the mouth is swallowed a thousand dicks. Yeah. And you you want me to take fence because you called me woman. Oh, woman.

Ashley: I love it. So she was brilliant. I loved her performance so much.

Joel: Well and I I do say that plays at least a little bit to one of my complaints, you know, in the first episode, was that we didn't get a lot of Lily. Lily didn't get a lot of agency or or personality. Here's a good example. In a small dose, we get a little bit more personality, a little bit more agency from some of these surrounding characters, these workers,

Ashley: you know, still But he he's given all his girls of of Ownership. Of ownership. So this is him working his way around these stupid ass laws. They keep passing or these organs. They keep passing to try to put him on a business. And he ends up just like doing better things for his workers.

Joel: Yeah. Absolutely. And it'll be interesting again to see how he tries to connect with with those folks that he sort of feels like he's responsible for now that they've shut down his businesses completely. There's a moment after the scene at the Deluxe when Louis Returns, he's very upset. After he's, you know, busted down the door on on Grace and the kids, he goes back to the house and L'Estat is entertaining the entire

Ashley: Oh my god. Yes.

Joel: Sam, that's the whole scene is great. But when Sam is describing to Louis, how these are all and they would never stumble upon the coffins. And Sam says all they want is a German on their bayonets. And the way he says it is like, every dude bro ever in existence is so perfect. I love it. I love it

Ashley: a little bit. I do too. He's he is just delicious. I mean, every episode, he's just he's just more and more endearing himself into my heart as being brilliant. I'm gonna have to watch this guy for the rest of his freaking career now because he's so great as we'll start.

Joel: Oh, I put like four of his old movies into my queue already to go and watch. And then I couple of weeks as I have, like, Sam withdrawals because there's not a new episode out yet. What

Ashley: does he say to what does he say to Louis that he can now that I know you're typed. Basically, you could fuck them and I could kill them.

Joel: Yeah. That's what he says. What? You I thought you could fuck them and I could kill them. I could eat them. Yeah, I thought you would be excited now that I know your type. E the moment though because Louis hurts him there. He sort of lashes out at him, and so Lestat makes a show. Of shutting everyone down telepathically and sending them out. I thought that was so so brilliant. So in the novels, list that makes it very, very clear especially in the story of interview in in these early years with Louis. Louis had been clearly repulsed by his unnaturalness by by the vampiric nature that he now had. All those strange supernatural things that he could do predator natural things, excuse me, that he could do. Louie sort of hated himself for it. And so because of that, Lestat hides so many of the things that he can do. He downplays his own abilities to Louis so as to not make him feel worse about that. And here's an example.

Ashley: Yeah. Something that he Louis has no idea that he can do.

Joel: But here's an example where, like, Listat does it out of pain. Right? Like, Louis has hurt him, and so Listat hurts him back. Here's what you are. Here's what we can do. Fine. Fine. I'll send the humans away. You're not one of them. Right? I feel like that is and I again, I think that plays perfectly to how these characters are, the nature of these characters, and the nature of this relationship. The only person who can hurt L'Estat effectively is Louie. And he does it several times

Ashley: in this

Joel: episode. The I mean, the end of this episode, by the way, before he goes, just to to meet Claudia, he breaks up with with List debt. There's no other way to read that. That's why you and I aren't gonna work. That's why you'll always be alone.

Ashley: Well, that's such a cutting thing to say. That is so painful. That's like this the most hurtful thing you could say to the start. That's why you'll always be alone.

Joel: I mean, listeners already told him specifically it's the one thing to dread as a vampire. The loneliness, the decades tricked by with no one around and listen, this is all very true to the books too. Book book list that wondered the world begging for Marius to show himself. You know? Yes. And I'm lonely. I know nothing about the world or my existence. I'm gonna die. Marius, I'm just gonna bury myself out here in the sand if you don't show up. I know your exist. Come and get me please. And and and that's, like, that's true. So the fact that and we don't know exactly the path that he took. There's some extra years in there that we don't know. For for this version of L'Estat. But anyway, that the fact that he's, you know, bared himself in that way to Louis, in the very recent past. And then Louis says that exact thing to him, I thought, boy, if Lestat grabs him a piece of hell out of him now, I can almost

Ashley: see more. Yeah. That was coming. That was coming.

Joel: You're right. That's what I'm saying. I thought for a moment that's how this was gonna end. It's like, oh, he asked for that ass whoop, and, actually, is what happened. He told me

Ashley: that you told me that he was always

Joel: he told me that he was always gonna be alone. I'm I'm I'm not trying to go on Twitter and and excuse domestic abuse, but I'm just saying, you know, listen.

Ashley: What a ChrisRock's like? What

Joel: did ChrisRock say? There's there's there's a reason to kick an old man down a flat of stairs. You just don't do it. Right.

Ashley: Oh my god. No. I mean, that's you definitely see that in this seat for sure. I before we get too far ahead of it, and maybe we're not ahead of it, and then I'm just not remembering the right order. But I really am so happy that Louis finally killed that asshole.

Joel: Oh, Finn WICK.

Ashley: And such a glorious and disgusting Yes. It's such a just horrifying, and he scared the shit out of that man before he killed him too. And I loved it. It was such a and a lasat is like it's such a lasat thing to do that he does, you know. And and it's so it but I was so happy for him. You know? I love a little revenge. I can't help it. And and that really was quite fulfilling. Mhmm. Yeah.

Joel: No. Absolutely satisfying. Fine. Here's the here's the the thing there though. There was a great line in there when they're in the in Fenwick's office. Fenwick says, to Louis, you haven't accepted your place in this world. And strangely, it occurred to me that is exactly what L'Estat is telling Louis throughout this episode. Yeah. He's saying different things and yet the message is actually exactly the same. To Louis. You know, L'Estat believes and it's strange too because Louis calls it out early in the episode on the bench. He says, you know, they came from apes. We came from them. We should be better than them speaking about robots. That's exactly Lestat's message. We are superior. We are above. Your concepts of morality are humans still. And misguided anyway based on what some god that doesn't exist as far as I know as far as you know as far as anyone knows, how about you get on board with the fact that you're a killer. And why don't we use it? You know, judiciously. That's what L'Estat tries to do in the episode, and I feel like that's effectively you know, FinWick's saying, take your places and you're beneath me because you're black.

Ashley: Right. But -- Absolutely. --

Joel: but they're they're both saying you don't know your place in this world. And it occurs to me that sort of, isn't that the whole journey of Louis? Is that he doesn't know his place in this world, sort of longs for it? I

Ashley: mean, that's the whole journey of this particular book, you know. I think that this is too as, like, one step of Louis, one step Louie takes towards accepting what he is.

Joel: Mhmm. This

Ashley: is one time this is probably one of the first times so far in the series that we've seen him really be violent with his with his kill, you know, and and to that he really pleased with his food, you know. So to speak, as as Lestat is so want to do, you know. This is really the first time we see him be cruel to a victim.

Joel: Well, and I like that modern day Louis calls out why he says in the narration you know, I had ignored my thirst. And all the hubbub that was going on, I had ignored my thirst and let it take me over. You know, It's interesting though because afterwards, when he and Lestat are talking, Lestat appraises him for his cruelty and his revenge and, like, yeah, It's not what I

Ashley: was -- Good job.

Joel: -- counseled, but good job. And Louis, like, well, you made me do this because you weren't paying attention to me effectively. Like, you didn't rein me in. Claims it on claims it on LaSalle, which is so that's so book Louis. Like, book Louis effectively says, everything I did wrong is because LaSalle was stupid and very rude to me. You know,

Ashley: like, NASA's interview with the vampire. Right. And NASA's administrative. Yeah.

Joel: Which, by the way, that's, like that's something you hear from, like, Well, in particular, you hear it now about president Biden. It's like, yes, he's a daughter ring hopeful and also he's the Antichrist who is manipulating world events. You can't have it both ways. Either he's got Alzheimer's or he's a evil genius. He you can't be both. But and yet, Louis does that about Lifestyle all the time. He's like, he wasn't even literate. And yet, also, he was manipulating me securitively because he knows humanity better than I do, you know, blah blah blah. Anyway, I thought that was nice that in that moment, that's like Louis comes out there and just does it straight to L'Estat's face. And L'Estat calls him out on it. He's like, Oh oh, you did this for your people? Did you? Did

Ashley: you help you? For you. Oh, yeah. Going out there. Like, look out the lenders. Yeah. And then everything it immediately leads into like this craziest, you know, rioting in this writing in storyville. Obviously, the people who are being harmed are are freaking poor black folks and Louis kind of runs into the fray sort of happazardly and disorderly and confusibly trying to quote unquote help, and there's nothing to be done to help.

Joel: Nothing. Nothing at all. It's it reminded me of two things. First and foremost, it reminded me a lot of the the bombing of Black Wall Street seen from the WATCHMAN H. B. O. C.

Ashley: R. C. R. C. So

Joel: Excellent. But also, it it reminded me of something I think that is very much a debate in the books and sort of begins in this episode from Louis. Louis asks, have you ever thought that our kind was put on Earth for a reason. And I think that's going to be sort of a search for Louis. I think it's definitely a search in the novels for the vampire population as a whole. What is the part that we have to play in human events?

Ashley: Great or perfect.

Joel: Yeah. Right. And and should do we rule? Do we you know, and it's interesting. This is if you're a nerd, this is the kind of thing you've read you know, for thirty years or forty years now, whatever in in the X Men comic and stuff. Like, this is that idea of, like, another race, another species sort of like overtaking humanity and whether that's the right thing to do or not. And are they oppressed? Or are they oppressors, etcetera, etcetera. Like, all of those things are very riff for exploration. And I think this setting that we've had laid out and these characterizations that we've had begun to build and these creators have shown a willingness to dive into that stuff in a way that will matter and will be affecting in a way that good art should be affecting as well as exciting and entertaining while you're doing it because God knows we don't read these vampire books because they aren't fun.

Ashley: Oh, yeah. For real. I mean, my god, if this was just a a a loveless slog, I don't think any of us would be interested in it at all.

Joel: Well, I mean, we could all go read philosophy books if we want to, but we don't. We read our philosophy and or at least we we don't again

Ashley: and again.

Joel: We read our

Ashley: philosophy through the

Joel: mouths of empires. Yeah.

Ashley: Or I watched a good place and I do like the, you know, the Reader's Digest Condense version.

Joel: Absolutely. Alright. I think anything else is gonna get into a little bit of Easter egg territory and maybe some some hints to what's coming. So let's move into that territory if you don't

Ashley: like to be sold on

Joel: anything upcoming. If you haven't read this novel before, go ahead and ballot now if you'd like to. But we are gonna talk a little bit about some speculation of where things might be going now. We hope you enjoyed the episode as well as we did. Check out the show notes for links to our face a group if you're not already part of it and join the conversation there or tweet us on on Twitter as well. Alright. Let's get into the easter eggs. First and foremost, we already mentioned the the European sensibilities comment. But I I think that is I think that's leaning in that direction. Here's the big one for me, and I mentioned this earlier, Hence to the current situation, it was small, but there's a great moment Daniel and Louie are speaking. Louie is pouring drinks for the two of them and then turns to walk away from the table and says over his shoulder, You're lingering, Rashid.

Ashley: You're lingering. Yeah.

Joel: Rashid says pardon me mister Dulak and disappears. Again, I say to you Reshid does not work for Louis. I am convinced. He will do Louis bidding without question because he's been ordered to. But

Ashley: Rashid is not

Joel: He doesn't have his employer. He's not his employer.

Ashley: Yeah. I agree. I agree. I think it's totally I think it's very clear to go after this that, like, we're definitely dealing with with probably a more modern situation.

Joel: So that's still my that's still my guess is that this is our mom's home. However, what I'm less sure of now than I was last episode. Last episode, I said in our speculation, that at this point in time, I believe Lestat is in the ground. I think Lestat

Ashley: is sleeping.

Joel: This is before his rock star phase. I I'm not sure of that now. Here's why. Louis has the fire gift. Okay. Maybe that's just because he's been cohabitating with Arman for a long time would seem if this is Arman's house. Maybe they've been together since whatever the forties, the nineteen forties when when they go to Europe, whenever that happens. Armand has it in the books. His blood would absolutely be strong enough. He could have strengthened Louis over time or maybe. And this is my speculation. What if L'Estat has already arisen and decided to wake Akasha? What if L'Estat has even already woken Akasha? Or at least drank from her again in the modern time and has come to Louis and made his pitch for Louis to join in. Been, like, come come with me my love. This

Ashley: is the right

Joel: thing to do.

Ashley: That kinda lines up with would have

Joel: the power too.

Ashley: Right. And that kinda lines up with what the show writers sort of said in that behind the scenes thing, which is, you know, these books. This is an interview after these books, and he piles up the first five. And so that's something to think about too. You know, is this, you know, where this interview is falling in the timeline, and I'm sure we're gonna get more information about it. The other thing is that that could easily be digs Lestat's dicks, you know, in in this in this new world we're living in, in this new kind of updated versions of these characters. But it just feels much more like Or Marius's. Right?

Joel: This could be Marius's. This

Ashley: could be Marius's colleague. Paining, paining up.

Joel: I think he probably would. I think he did at the end times past. I think I think there's I think there's references. Maybe I'm maybe I'm missing this, but I think there's references in the books damn sorta being pissed off that the Tallamasca have them in the, you know, in the basements and stuff. They've got a bunch of works in the basements.

Ashley: Yeah. That is true. I do remember that now that you say that. And,

Joel: I mean, I know I think it's L'Estat primarily that goes and steals a bunch of them out. But, like --

Ashley: Yeah. -- you got it. Anyway,

Joel: you this could be, for instance, if Akasha is already awake, but she hasn't really begun her reign of terror, so to speak, if maybe she's with lestat sort of understanding the modern world right now, If that's going on, then this could be Marius' house. Our Louis is there with Marius and the two of them are literally trying to warn the world that that a goddess is about to come and try to destroy it. Like, they don't know what are anyway, I'm saying, now I'm thinking this might be prequeen of the damned. I think this might be prequeen of the damned, and I'm so excited.

Ashley: I'm just, you know, however they however, they align this the timeline out. I'm just I feel like we're gonna get full versions of all these stories. Like, we're gonna get our will fight. We're gonna get our crazy Akasha. Like, we're gonna get everything that we're supposed to get. I really feel like it. I'm as long as, you know, the viewership holds out and they're making the money is coming in the way it's supposed to. I feel like we're gonna every bit of the story we're gonna get and it's gonna be as good as we want it to be.

Joel: Absolutely. Absolutely. Like, it is so clear to me. Like, go and look at the merch nice. Again, go look at the

Ashley: nice. Oh my god. There's a whole last cough in you guys.

Joel: There is a whole last cough in that street. I'm like, so I'm gonna get the hoodie, I think, maybe for Christmas. I've I've already told my my wife I need the the coffin hoodie with the interview with the vampire on the It's, like, right under the neck on the back. It's beautiful. The

Ashley: merch shop. Anyway, they opened from seven PM to seven AM, whatever time you're in. I love it. It's only dark. It's not dark. Yes. Oh, I love it.

Joel: But I but you look at that you look at the the Mayfair Witches series and like the money that they've clearly poured into that, you look at the way that they are already building connections between these things, the Tallamasca is gonna be a big deal for them. I I think they've got spin off ideas already for several of these properties. I I think Yeah. This is in good hands and I think they're going in interesting places. It is so fascinating for me to sort of like watch it unfold and and and see the little hints of where they're gonna go and be able to with a little bit foreknowledge from the books go, oh, that sounds like this or that sounds like this. It's like, you know, the the comment, I think it was an episode two about the brute from Madagascar sinus all diving. There's no mention of that, by the way. I have searched exhaustively in the last week

Ashley: Madagascar is not a thing in the book. Yeah. No one's ever no one's been able to no one's commented to to in the group either. So, I mean, that I feel like we've we've pretty much done the research we can do. So what does that tea is about?

Joel: Well, no, I think that's something new. That's what I'm saying. I think that's I think that's building up to the things that are gonna unfold in the series that as Roland Jones said in that behind the scenes special you know, I wanna surprise the book the book readers too. I don't want this to just be a paint by numbers. Oh, and now they're doing this. Oh, and now they're doing that. And now they're doing this. I want there to be surprises as it unfolds. And so I'm here for that too, honestly. I am just super excited and thankful for the way that this is going and and again week after week THEY CONTINUE TO SURPRISE ME. I CANNOT WAIT FOR THE ARRIVAL OF TODIA NEXT WEEK. IT'S GOING TO BE AT OUR GIRL It's gonna be a huge shift to the series. And and again, it's one of those moments where, you know, these characters have haven't been you know, reimagined on screen for us in a whole generation now. And Claudia finally gets her appearance here. We'll be this excited again when ARMAN, FIRST APPEARS, or

Ashley: MARIO, or Acastia,

Joel: or all of these beautiful names. MARIO, somebody brought up the other day, and I was like, God, I love MARIO. I can't wait until we -- Oh.

Ashley: -- but

Joel: folks We're gonna get to all of them.

Ashley: Yes. I'm so excited. Pandora is a favorite of mine. I'm really excited to finally see her actualized.

Joel: It will and not just actualized, but you imagine she's one that we're gonna get some full story on too. And and like Oh, yes. We better. Yeah. How how can you not get excited about that? Alright. Anything else particularly as far as like Easter eggs or little mentions that you noticed in this episode?

Ashley: I really didn't. I was I was mostly yeah. We hit all the ones that I that I saw.

Joel: Awesome. Awesome. Alright. Check the show notes for the link in particular to that YouTube discussion that I mentioned and join us on Facebook if you're not already there. And otherwise, tell us what you thought in the episode. Every episode, by the way, gets its own spoiler discussion thread. So we can have these sorts of discussions there, and it's a safe space. Nobody is going to to be mad about it because if they're gonna be spoiled, they won't read it. I promise I there's a warning at the top. What what could you say? Yeah. Folks, I wanna say on that note, by the way, thank you for helping us build such a fun little garden to play in and and be geeked out and excited about the show and the coming of Cuchamont. Ashley, I mentioned earlier, I'm about four hours away from finishing the witching hour. I know you just dove into it, so that's

Ashley: probably just restarted.

Joel: Yeah. That's probably still a ways away. And it's cool because it looks like we're gonna get so this series will be done I think by the end by the first of November, like, the first week of November or the second week of November, this first season. And then we're gonna have all the way until January fifth before the Mayfair Witch series drops. So we'll have a little bit of break in between we'll get to the witching hour within that break as well. Absolutely. We'll get to a discussion of that. But I I I love all of these worlds that she's built, and I am so excited that we're all getting to revisit them and that new people are discovering them. If you're new to the --

Ashley: Yeah. --

Joel: universe Welcome aboard.

Ashley: We're so blessed. It's such a fun place to hang out. You're gonna have a good time. You're in for such a wild ass ride. It's

Joel: a savage garden, drink up.

Ashley: It is. Drink up y'all.

Joel: Alright. Until the next time we talk to you go and watch episode four of season one of interview with the Vampire, from AMC and AMC Plus. Until the next time we talk to you, we've been the articulate coven. Were your hosts?

Ashley: Ashley Wright Eiler.

Joel: I'm Joel Sharpton, and we are the articulate coven. Thanks for listening to the Articulate Cove. You can join our community on Facebook by following the links in the show notes or searching for articulate coven on Facebook. You can subscribe to the show in Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or at articulatecoven dot com. And share us with your Am Rice loving friends.