When No One Chooses You, You Have to Choose Yourself - Ashley and Joel Discuss “Like Angels Put in Hell by God” Anne Rice’s Interview with the Vampire S01E06 - AC018

When No One Chooses You, You Have to Choose Yourself - Ashley and Joel Discuss “Like Angels Put in Hell by God” Anne Rice’s Interview with the Vampire S01E06 - AC018

Joel: The Articulate Coveen is the original unofficial podcast and fan community for An Rice's interview with the Vampire and An Rice's Immortal Universe from AMC and AMC Plus.

Joel: Welcome to the Articulate Cove and we are your hosts.

Ashley: Ashley Wright Eiler.

Joel: And I'm Joel Sharpton, and we are the articular oven. Ashley Ashley -- Joel. I I did a you and I both did a show, actually. We spent a little time in Southern Ohio doing an outdoor drama called Blue Jacket.

Ashley: Oh, yes. Yes. We did it.

Joel: And

Joel: as part of the pre show for that show, one of the extra jobs you could get as an actor is working the pre show song little performance. While the people are eating their dinner before they come down into the theater.

Ashley: Yeah. You'd send

Joel: some folks up there. You'd sing some classic folk songs, you know, period appropriate songs. And the one that I still remember to this day is Froggy when Acorton. Froggy when Acorton neededrad. And I think you very well could have titled this episode. Love the beautiful poetry from a n. Don't get me wrong, but this one could have been La STATte one of Corton and he did ride. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. La STATte one of Corton and he did ride. Uh-huh. Antoinette's finger by his side. That one occurred and he did ride.

Ashley: It was a beautiful ring on that finger, though. I don't blame Claudia for keeping it. She wasn't wearing it later, but I don't blame her for keeping it.

Joel: So So if you haven't if you don't know what you've stumbled into, this by the way is a unofficial podcast and fan community for Anne Rice's interview with the Vampire and the lives of the Bay Fair, which is from AMC and AMC Plus. We are here to talk about episode six. Of our interview with the vampire like angels put in hell by God, and we will be spoiling the episode. So if you haven't seen it, Here comes the e. Turn back now beyond their b dragons. So let's let's get into it. First of all, and I haven't pulled the credits. Let me pull that up real quick on

Ashley: the next link on

Joel: DB website here. Alright. So for episode six, like angels put in hell by God, director was eleven Aiken and Colin Ebert was the writer. Man.

Ashley: Just write Work everyone. Oh,

Joel: this guy.

Ashley: There's just some ideas. I would love to be a fly on the wall in there. Here. Also, we need to look up Joel is gonna start paying more attention to who the editor is of these episodes because the editor plays such a huge part in the storytelling and I, like, this goes back to breaking bad for me, like, being becoming obsessed with that show and listening to that insider podcast that was hosted by their editor, Kelly Dixon, and it really got me paying attention to, like, editing and such in in shows and especially something of this, like, arc and this magic. You know that the editor is working hard to, like, get that fifty one minute cut just where it needs to be and not not miss the good stuff and let go of some of the things that, oh, maybe hard to let go of.

Joel: Oh, there's so much going on behind the scenes. So film editing on this one was Janet Weinberg is the credit for this episode. Give

Ashley: it up for Janet.

Joel: The other thing that I wanna call out here is the music from Daniel Hart.

Ashley: Oh, my was the entire episode underscored?

Joel: So not just the entire I I believe the entire episode was. And honestly, the vast majority of the series has been has been scored. This episode especially though, and I called it out right early here, one of the reasons why this this whole episode sort of colored by the courting phase, which is honestly just the beginning of the episode. But the reason why that was so impressive to me was the soundtrack. You know, the soundtrack, the score throughout the series has been fantastic. But in this episode, especially and in that sequence, through Louise Recovery and Lrastat's courtship, there's this lovely little light tune that's playing. I mean, it felt like a European romance with Kerry Grant as the lead or something. Right? Like it's And obviously, there's still heavy stuff going on there. Louis is is incredibly, you know, beaten and and dismembered as the show begins, but goodness gracious. I don't

Ashley: know that I've ever been so so funny. Right. I don't know that I've ever been so aware of the music. I like that you called a courtship. I'm gonna call it love bombing because that's what narcissists do in abusive relationships, Joel. And let's start doing some love bombing. You love bombing with a nice car. Yeah. Well, that's like that's love bombing over the course of, like, two months in a in a human relationship maybe. You know? Yeah. That's a good point. For, like, two weeks of love bombing, probably more accurate for our guys here.

Joel: Some great line delivery in that sequence, though, from Sam, ESLISTOT, especially -- He's perfect. -- first and foremost, when he shows up with the gift rings the doorbell and Claudia answers. I love he says, I've been calling rather often I'm not sure if the operator is putting me through properly. Yeah. I don't know if you're getting my text or not. But

Ashley: I've been

Joel: trying

Joel: to contact you.

Ashley: I've been left on red. It's kind of uncomfortable.

Joel: It's such such such a crazy thing to watch him at work here.

Ashley: The book that he brings there, number one, I love books. Like, the physical of a book in the hand, and that would be, like, you're gonna woo me with books asshole. Well, you're gonna really probably get me then. You know? And that book was so beautiful. I was just wondering if there's if there's any sort of like Easter egg I'm missing there about that

Joel: particular Well, I haven't seen anything. I didn't I didn't recognize particularly I

Ashley: didn't either of us. Have not seen

Joel: anyone call

Ashley: that out. Immediately, like, in love with it. I was, like, well, yeah. I'd let you in for that book probably. Damn it.

Joel: Yeah. I I gotta tell you, like, bringing a first of all, that is very much something that Louis would be into, I think, book Louis especially. And it's also very much something that L'Estat would do. It's lovely, which is the thing that he focuses on in the emergence of the ancient book. Right?

Joel: It's

Joel: the fifteen hundreds. But he's like, it's very, very pretty. Don't you see that Claudia?

Ashley: Look how gorgeous it is. Yes. Claudia's fin she Bailey Bass so great in this episode. Claudia is seeing her as a caretaker instead of more of a child or or that she's the the young one being taken care of, seeing that role reversal with her and Louie was just really fantastic.

Joel: So the other moment there in the early section that I thought was really really something was in that same thing. He he shows off the book. Claudia says no one here wants to talk to you, you know, goodbye. The stat says, well, let's let Louis speak for himself. Why don't

Ashley: you please

Joel: tell me? And he throws the coffin out the balcony onto the Rue Royale. First of all, it's the first jump scare of the entire series for

Ashley: me. It

Joel: literally jumped up and down. When that when it happened. Because I was on edge based on last week's events and the fact that Claudia here is still, like, throwing daggers with her eyes at L'Estat, I said, maybe somebody's gonna get attacked here. No. The coffin scrap, you know, explodes onto the the street. And then I got a good belly laugh. Honestly,

Ashley: once I realized there

Ashley: was an actual violence there. That's

Joel: a good joke, and Louis is not even there in the scene. You know?

Ashley: So funny. And let's start Sam does this very just like like little cut of his eyes to to the left, and it it was so brilliant. He played that so well. He didn't flinch, but it was just like, oh, okay. I see where we are.

Joel: I'm nothing without you. I'm nothing without both of you. Very different deliveries on the two lines, both at the same time as he gives them the car or tries to give them the car before Claudia scratches the hood and throws the keys away. My question to you is, do you think that L'Estat loves Claudia -- No. -- in the show?

Ashley: No. Not in this presentation at all. Like, I will say this is something that I think is really hitting home for me really hard, and I was thinking about it this episode, that more so than in more so than in the book even, I feel like L'Estat is gonna deserve what's about to happen to him. And I don't necessarily know that I felt that way in the ninety when I watched the ninety four film, I don't even that I really felt that way when I read the book, you know, for the first several times. But, like, this time, I'm like, yeah. No. We're gonna kill this guy. And it's gonna be a hoot. You know?

Joel: I think that is a central argument that will continue to happen about this series as we move forward. And it may that argument may grow more more, you know, into a cavern instead of a little ditch between the fandom. As the series progresses because it well, that occurred to me this week. Last week, we finished episode five, and my wife turns to me and asks, So tell me again, why do you all love Loustache so much? And I said, well, you gotta remember he doesn't do this in the books. Right? That was my first thing. And so this week, when we've had that discussion a few times this week, we finished this episode this week, episode six. And she asked me again, she says, okay, I mean it. Seriously now tell me, why is it that you all love L'Estat? And what I came down to in the final summation of it all is what it really boils down to is we all love Livestat because Anne Rice did.

Ashley: Yeah. And

Joel: Rice Livestat was Anne Rice's favorite. She was he was her muse and he spoke to her for the better part of forty years and for all but, you know, three of the books effectively. And because of that, we have this incredibly years long journey with him over his centuries long life and we see all the shades of Listan. We see him at his best. We see him at his most Devenir and charismatic We see him at his low points as well. But you know, you it's hard to encapsulate that in one season of one series from effectively only two characters points of view

Ashley: -- Absolutely. -- Claudia's

Joel: point of view, we've seen from Louie's point of view. Yeah. And the question for for me is knowing that if we get good adaptations of all of these books as they move forward, L'Estat must become a little bit more centered in the narrative in the future, have we soured that possibility by giving Claudia and Louis so much reasoning for what's coming here in the finale.

Ashley: No. I don't think so because I think for the first time, I really feel like I feel like it was always supposed to be deserved, but this is the first time I'm really seeing it that way because the point of view is so strong from the Claudia Louie perspective. And I think that's the difference this time when I'm reading it. I know as a reader that I'm about to go and see LaSalle at his very very high points, his very very low points, his very very hot famous points is very very sad in the ground points. So, like, I understand that character has more of an arc And it's also taking into account the fact that these characters are supernatural and otherworldly and live a much longer existence than we do. And I think in in this world that Anne set up, it's so important for them to be able to go hard, bad, go hard, good. Go hard, weak, go hard, strong because you need to see those dichotomies and then you can flip and see it from a totally different perspective and like a brand new character is talking to you, and that's why this never gets boring.

Joel: Well, the writers promised us to bring something new even for the book lovers. You know, they they wanted a modern adaptation that would work for mainstream TV And I think clearly based on the ratings and the continued

Ashley: rollout of

Joel: this and AMC Plus internationally, I saw I read an article earlier this week. They rolled down into a bunch of international markets this month. Oh,

Ashley: I hope that means some of our friends are getting to watch it that haven't gotten to see it yet.

Joel: Exactly. Exactly. Should be available to people soon as that continues. But that's largely on the back of the strength of this final season of The Walking Dead that's going on right now and and the beginning of the immortal universe with interview with a vampire, which has been so successful. So I I mean, I guess, I guess, you're right. And honestly, honestly, that very question. The idea that that TV show viewers that haven't read the books or haven't read the books, you know, already for twenty, thirty years in their

Ashley: life. Right.

Joel: They're going to be coming to us with those questions. Why do your loveless stat? And so here we are as long time fans having to wrestle with that big question. What is it about this character? Yeah. And so idiomatic and so compelling for us. And and we have to sort of wrestle with the true horror of many of the things that he's done. And we'll continue to do as we go through forward in the series. And guess what? Folks, don't be smug if you're not a list that fan. All of the other characters do plenty of of bad shit too. Yeah. All gonna get our come up. It's

Ashley: He's just too worried.

Joel: Through the AMC lens, I think I mean, already here, Louis has been given a spotlight on some of his own misdeeds, I think, pretty clearly. And the things that I and Claudia are now planning to do to L'Estat, I think will also be given the same horror and directness that we were given with the attack on Louis an episode ago.

Ashley: Absolutely. I think that those two are for sure. I think that two, we have to see it being we have to see it and understand that it's a crime, you know, going forward as kind of like a spoiler for, you know, what happens in Europe and when they come up across our mind, etcetera. You know, like, we have to feel like this although we may feel like it's deserved, we still have to feel like this is wrong. So I'm very interested to see how it's gonna all play out. But I think one of the things that that's a, like, a little peek into the true character of L'Estat is in the scene where Claudia and Louis are giving him their rules about, hey, this is we're gonna get back together as a family, but these are the rules. And and then a a bit later, they ask him about his maker, and he tells the story that is true of his making. And it's one time that he's very he's very genuine and it's very different portrayal then we've seen really Sam do a lot in the character because it's such a a vulnerable kind of moment. And I think it's kind of a little a little hint, a little kiss into what we're gonna get later.

Joel: Oh, here's a perfect opportunity, Ashley. It occurs to me that you and I have not talked about this on the show. So several episodes ago, when we saw Claudia's diaries for the first time, there's a moment where one of the diaries is opened Daniel opens it to a particular page marked with a rose. We noted in our episode the writing is different, the handwriting is different, and the text is actually directly lifted from the vampireist at the novel. It is the scene when he's trying to kill the wolves. His horse has been injured badly and he has to put her down. That's the scene that's depicted in that moment from the diaries there in the show. We discussed it, oh goodness. He's already written in Claudia's

Ashley: diary. He'll think it's gonna

Joel: be amazing. They're going to show Lestat's perspective. Maybe we'll even get it before the season is over. Friends, the writers came out on Twitter and said it was just a mistake. Y'all, listen. Somewhere along the way, listen, you and I both come from the theater world. We've

Ashley: got It's also crazy. We think everything matters and it was the fucking continuity error. That I mean, look, it

Joel: it does happen. It was hard for me to imagine. That something so bold and so clearly, like, clearly, if anybody sees them in a screen capture, we're all gonna lose our

Ashley: minds of

Joel: it. And the fact that that would still be allowed through through the props person and through the editing department, and the director, and all the people who have to sign on off off on a project to have missed it,

Ashley: They don't know how crazy we are.

Joel: You die. However, turns out that was nothing to that. So so here though, here we do get another scene And this is, I think, probably, the third little glimpse. We've had the mention of Nikki before in the --

Ashley: Oh. -- violinist.

Joel: Geez. That that that L'Estoc had written a song for. We got the mention of his father and brothers and their brutality about the the church and pulling him out of the church when he wanted to become a priest that was at dinner with mama do lock. Now we've gotten the story of Magnus, and then later we do get a little bit more of the story of Nikki as well. Yeah. But here, I think, Magnus was I was for me a little bit of a heartwarming moment because it seemed like genuine sharing. Claudia and Lewis are genuinely interested in where do they come from? What is the nature of vampirism in this world? What is your origin story? Because again, like, think about I mean, okay. I'll tell you in my own life. My my mother has only in the last few years discovered, parent not expected, I think is the name that they use. She did a DNA test. It turns out her father is not her biological father. This was a, you know, alarming thing

Ashley: for -- I oh my god. -- and my sister

Joel: to learn. Right? And so we've spent the last several years trying to discover who exactly this family was, learning a little bit about he's he's also our biological grandfather has passed as well, So we but learning a little bit about him, about the family that he comes from, connecting with some cousins. This is what effectively Louie and Claude do you wanna do there?

Ashley: We all create those connections. Yeah. We want to know where we came from. We wanna know everybody wants that I feel like, you know, and and it's harder for some of us than others to track down, you know. And I think that that's

Joel: the

Joel: fact that lestat offers his heart here. You can see it in his eyes. He tells them the truth. I I say that. It's it's slightly different from the book version only in that the book magnus only kept him there kept him there one night. He didn't keep him, I think, for a week or ten days or whatever. L'Estoches says in the the thing. And I believe L'Estat didn't discover the bodies until after he had been turned into a vampire and and Magnus was already gone, I think, in the book. So it's maybe slight variations there. But still the basic core of it, that he was was kidnapped, was tortured, was forced into vampirism by Magnus, and then abandoned immediately by Magnus' jump into the fire. That's all from the vampireistat. I mean, straight from it. That

Ashley: is the He cries. That's not what he wants. That he that he asks, you know, like, cries to God. Like like he has all of those moments where those all are genuine moments even if he's god. And that's a thing. He's such a little shit. And and he's referred to as a brat this time by Louis for the first time. And I'm like, yeah. Finally. Oh, he's such a brat. It doesn't even seem to do it justice, but it is so apropos. He's a a brat. But

Joel: the that openness, that willingness to share from from L'Estat even obviously begrudgingly because this is like in recompense for the harm that he's done to the family.

Ashley: Right. And he's only doing it because it serves his purpose. Like, I am not I like, I will say it's genuine sharing, but he's only doing it because it serves him.

Joel: Yes. Yes. No. You're absolutely right there. But but that is immediately taken and used against him like a weapon by Claudia. You know, with with the Nikki comment especially.

Ashley: Oh, she she knows a little bit of a bang.

Joel: And so she turns the just twist the knife into him. Twist the knife into him. And like we've said previously with Lisbate where he can't help but get the last word. Claudia here cannot help but torture Lisbate OPENLY. SHE'S ALREADY plotting HIS DEMIES. EVEN I THINK AS SOON AS HE'S WELCOMED BACK INTO THE HOME AS SOON AS LOE COMES BACK WITH HIM, THAT VERY FIRST NIGHT I think I think Claudia has decided I'm gonna kill this motherfucker, but she doesn't know exactly how it's gonna work. She doesn't know how to work.

Ashley: Just she will. And Louie,

Joel: over to her cause. Right?

Ashley: Right. So

Joel: she she kind of limps along. But she still can't bring herself to offer the sweetness Go back and think about when she returned from her college sojourn. We talked about how that that initial thing that she says to Lrastat, and then Lrastat stabs her. Here they are. They can't it reminds me so tragically. Now listen, I don't I don't treat my son the way that List Act treats Claudia. That's not what I'm saying. But these arguments between the two of them because they are so much alike.

Ashley: Oh, my gosh. Absolutely. This

Joel: happens with my son, my thirteen year old son. He and I cannot walk down from a simple discussion sometimes because we are so much alike. We cannot help but push each other's buttons, and that's we might both even be aware of it and not want it. Now, unlike in this relationship, we we're not actually acrimonious. We don't wanna

Ashley: hurt each other. Right. But

Joel: still our natures call us to that. So here, when there is active animosity, Lastat wants her gone and out of the way. He is angry even here at the end in the resolution of this episode, he's angry that he believes that Claudia would actually help and save Louis and that he couldn't do it alone.

Ashley: Yeah. He hates it. Reasons

Joel: why he bring yeah. It's one of the reasons why he brings her back with such violence, I think, is because he's sort of taken it out on her. That he can't be what Louis needs.

Ashley: Well, I also think he wants to scare her. I think he wants to scare her into staying for Louis. He can't have her running off anymore. He wants

Joel: to terrify her. Ashley, if Lestat had done what he did to Louis in last episode, would he have to make any grand shows to you, to scare you into the I mean, like, I I wouldn't I would never have run away. The bravery and audacity that Claudia has and shows

Ashley: -- Oh, such a joke. -- yeah. Claudia

Joel: is not one of my favorite characters. I'm not a Claudia Apologist. And yet, I'm falling in love in certain ways with Bayley's portrayal, and I am again reminded of why this is such a compelling character and how I think a whole new generation of people are gonna fall in love with her specifically, even maybe more so than our boys because of the fact that even after last week's beating, She's gone. She and fuck with that. Fuck Louie too. If he can't be without him, you know, I'm gonna find happiness. I'm gonna find freedom. I'm gonna find a life for myself. Even after the harm that was done to her outside of their family in last episode, she's still making her way in the world or trying to.

Ashley: When no one chooses you, you have to choose herself. And that's what she does in this. She when she hasn't been chosen, by anyone, and this is her opportunity to choose herself and to make choices for herself. And even when Louise sends her off and he says, you're different now. You can you can you can smell trouble from a mile away. You know, even in that, he's giving her more power, more strength to make the choice to leave. He's pushing her away.

Joel: First of all, Ashley, we're not recording this on Sunday like we normally do. We record

Ashley: this on Monday. So I'm sorry, guys. I lost my voice.

Joel: Don't even worry about that. I was just gonna say, you're not supposed to take us to church on Mondays. We go to church on Sundays around here. So you got to You got to stop with the

Ashley: No. It's always wrong, sir. Serves herself.

Joel: Listen, though. I I said right in that scene where which by the way, the the title of that piece of the soundtrack is called Sister, you don't need me anymore. I think is the name of it. It's something -- Oh. -- that that that Luis says there. Hang on. I gotta pull it up.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. That underscore

Joel: this whole Jesus, you don't need me. Jesus, you don't need me. That's the name of it. Oh, I loves it. Daniel Hart, he's he's my new dude. So so what I said about

Ashley: Ever for hairs, whatever sister knows, your brother always needs you. Every sister fucking knows that. I've

Joel: got a brother.

Ashley: I know my brother always needs me. You got a sister. I know your sister knows she always you always need her,

Joel: you know. You're very bad.

Joel: Man,

Ashley: this is messing with us. Joel messing with us.

Joel: We've talked a lot about the million different ways that agent Claudia was a good idea. We were always on board for that for sure. This episode again makes it playing though one of their overarching ideas about why it was important to do that, why for the story doesn't matter. In this version, Louie says it there. Hey, Sis, you don't need me. Claudia knows it. Louie knows it. They're not locked together in this birth, in this telling of the story. They're locked together by love. They do love one another. They are compelled to share existence with one another, and they will do that as we move forward into season two. And yet, it's not the forced nature of that relationship that it was in the movie or definitely in the book. Where you have a five, six year old, or a or a ten year old, as portrayed who literally cannot move about society without an adult.

Ashley: An adult. People would be like, why is this baby? The

Joel: park. Right. She keep getting arrested.

Ashley: Like, this actual five year old. Like, people are like, Kirsten Dutz play the five year old. Oh, no, she didn't. You were on drugs.

Joel: Yeah. Yeah, friends. Listen. She was stretching ten. Okay? Because she was a she was a very pretty thirteen year old, I think, was a young man.

Ashley: Let's yeah.

Joel: So I I I did love that resolution. Although, it was there's a confusing line in there and I wanna put it out there. Maybe I'm the only one that was confused by it on my second rewatch. I I thought it was a little bit clearer. The night that they say goodbye, is also the night that L'Estat returns her. Right? Is that

Ashley: the way that played out? I read that as that. I read it that

Joel: way. I think that's the case. Louie has a line after she leaves. He tells Daniel that he contemplated meeting the sun that night. You know, he was sitting there on the bench and thinking, oh, they'd just find a pile of ashes in my walking cane, and wouldn't that be interesting and scandalous? You know? And he decides against it because years ago, long ago, Paul had ruined Grace's wedding night with his death. And he wouldn't do that to Claudia's escape, but he says specifically, I wouldn't do that for the anniversary of Claudia's escape. I guess what he when I rewatched it the second time, I think what they're trying to say there is, Louis was saying, I won't have her remember for years to come. Right. She celebrates her escape from from me and and L'Estat, that I also died. I

Ashley: went to the sun that night. Yeah. That she lost me forever.

Joel: But no time has passed there. She has not been on that on that train journey again for even a night or two.

Ashley: Oh, no. I took that as literally being, like, she settled in thinking, booyah, I'm gonna make it, and then here comes the hair comes on the bless. With a puppet.

Joel: I think that's the way that it plays out. It was like I said, it was a little hard for me to understand as they as they told it. But, yes, I believe that that's the case. If somebody knows for fact, a different way. Please let us know that in the comments or or in your feedback. You okay. Let's just talk all about that scene right there because, again, I I they put a trigger warning at the beginning of the show because of domestic violence. You know what? There's a there's a scene we've skipped. Go back to that in a minute. Let's talk about the train sequence first, though, because we're right here on it now.

Ashley: Right.

Joel: This is one of the most list top moments of the entire

Ashley: series. So so focused on passing

Joel: through the gate, holding the head

Joel: of

Joel: the train conductor.

Ashley: Doing a silly voice. His hat.

Joel: Doing a silly here again, like the like the German on their bayonets. Oh, my god. Again, we get a

Joel: Brooklyn

Joel: accent this

Ashley: morning. And when they're playing when they're playing a no surprise to after watching watching that. You know, it's

Joel: So he might give me that

Ashley: immediately. I was like, oh, fuck. Yeah.

Joel: He this is this is listen. Lestat is not cruel in the same way that was displayed I think last episode and we talked about that. Booklestat would not attack Louis in that way. But L'Estat will prance around with a part of a corpse.

Ashley: A hundred percent. In the ninety

Joel: four movie. We're

Joel: we're

Ashley: dance around her mom. That is from life of the old girl already. Yeah.

Joel: Yeah. He he he is one who would dance with the dead. Especially to freak somebody else to fuck out. And so that's exactly what he does here. He kicks in the door. He did tickets, please. And then Here

Ashley: are the mayhem, like, as he's leading up to it. You know, it's Or

Joel: when he's when he jams the head into the wall to

Ashley: get it out of his legs, like, squint. Splattered everywhere. Cool.

Joel: But there's also a great moment in that scene too, which by the way, lots of, like, double layered meanings there with their dialogue between Claudia and L'Estat. As they discussed. You wanna even You know her on the back.

Ashley: Brett loved my husband. My husband unlike Kelly, your wife, my husband, Brett, is like, oh, yeah, I'm I'm timeless dad all the way. And he loved the scene so much, especially when he let the dog out, and he's standing there. He's there. He's they're having a conversation while he's letting the dog lick the blood off of his hands. Well,

Joel: I love it. He tries to wipe it first. He tells

Ashley: like, Josh, when

Joel: he first walks in, he gets his handkerchief out and he's trying to wipe his hands. There's a lot of blood. It's very, very sticky. And he realizes, oh, there's a dog here? Why waste all of this? I'll let the dog out.

Ashley: I like to Dog

Joel: licks the blood off my hands. Also, yes, exact let's talk about, by the way, And this is one of the things that I put it out to Kelly as a little example. Were you,

Ashley: like, four shadowing? He's, like, have a dog later.

Joel: Well, no. The dog likes him, though. Right? The dog likes him, does it growl, does it bark, wimpers, when he first comes in.

Ashley: So the dog likes her shirt.

Joel: The dog's well, I mean, yeah, sure, maybe. But the dog doesn't growl at the that. Meanwhile, let's go back to when Claudia and Charlie are screwing into the buggy. The horse is in the stable, losing its g d mind. TRYING TO BREAK OUT BECAUSE IT KNOWS THE EVAL IS ABOUT TO DESTROY CHARLIE. I'M SAYING ANIMALS LIKE LUTLASTAT. THEY DID NOT LIKE CLODIA.

Ashley: THAT IS TRUE. Apparently.

Joel: Dogs know, Ashley. They

Ashley: know give me the good time tomorrow. You know. And Livestat does have a dog later.

Joel: Well, he's got dogs earlier too. They've already mentioned his mother gave him mastiffs.

Ashley: Yeah. He had dogs in yep.

Joel: So he had dogs in life. He has dogs several times during his vampiric life and especially, you know, the tail of the body

Ashley: of the year. Famous when he gets

Joel: mojo is the name of the the giant dog that he gets in in that one. By the way, based on a dog that Anne actually owned in real life. So I think we're likely to get Mojo at some point

Ashley: -- I agree.

Joel: -- not too soon. Not too far off too. Let's go back to that previous scene. So as Lisad is finishing up his courting, the thing that finally breaks through seven years, eight years into this this separate range separate separation and estrangement, which by the way, I love how they have sort of massaged and changed these three their life together. You know, the period in the books is basically, L'Estat and Louis are together like ten years, fifteen years or something, then they have Claudia and they're together for, like, forty

Ashley: five years -- Yeah. -- forty fifty.

Joel: And and then they all separate. Here, each group have had periods of contentment and separation and contentment and separation a few times now. I think that is honestly more realistic, especially with the slightly compressed time frame. And it's true to all of these characters and the way that they interact with each other while giving it a little more explanation and reasonableness. Right? Like, for the mainstream audience who haven't read the books, who haven't lived in these characters heads for thirty, forty years. This show makes their interactions with each other and the way they treat each other, make a little bit more sense, I think, and a little bit more realistic.

Joel: Yeah.

Ashley: Because, I mean, we like these we like these portrayals too. Like, that's the other thing is that, like, I don't know that I've ever liked all of these characters this much. And that's saying a lot because I love these characters. And I just don't know that ever I never dreamed I would see someone playing LaSalle the way Sam Reade is playing him. He just is he embodies the character are in such a beautiful way that it's just so hard not to get completely caught up in the bullshit.

Joel: You know, now that you now that you say that. This is something that I saw come up on Twitter this this past week. And I I hadn't decided whether or not I was going to say something about on the show because I don't wanna get negative feedback of if folks are really in love with this guy or or with this crew that I'm talking about. Cody Fern, who played the Antichrist in the American horror story series. I think he's appeared a couple of times. Oh, okay. I think by a couple of times, I think he's appeared in a couple of seasons that

Ashley: Yeah. This is anthology stuff.

Joel: Yeah. But that's what he's primarily known for. He was apparently in heavy discussions with the show for the role of L'Estat when this was at Hulu. Back when it first started up there. And then that production fell apart. The rights eventually moved over to AMC, and now we ended up with this show. Nothing against Cody Fern. I think he would have probably made quite a good list stock.

Joel: I'm

Ashley: just pretty

Joel: sure Sam Reed is list stock. That's what Sam is is just possessed. He's just so perfect. But even more than that, it occurred to me and I'd never really thought about this before because you and I talked and we had a whole episode actually about the Hulu adaptation that was coming at the time. And then in the interim, we never actually talked about the AMC adaptation

Ashley: Alright. Because now it's gonna happen.

Joel: We honestly, we didn't believe it. Yeah. We talked about that before. We we came we the show had already died twice at that point. Even in this little interim, and we were sort of we were sort of burnout. We thought it wasn't gonna happen. All we'd ever get to talk about was the books. Well, now we know what has happened. I look at that and I think to myself, boy, I mean, it might not have even been been bad. But it does strike me that a lot of the creative team, a lot of the creative crew for that Hulu adaptation would have likely come over from Ryan Murphy's crew, the American horror story crew, an American crime story, and all the different shows that they do, and they do most of them now with Hulu. I've That's a fine crew. They do very very good work. However, I am very satisfied and very glad that what we got instead was a lot of the creative crew from breaking bad and better call solve.

Ashley: Yeah. It can't be bad.

Joel: I mean, those are not the same genre at all, you know. This isn't a horror crew that comes into this primarily. What they are is a heavy drama crew. Well, I know It's

Ashley: character due to nine

Joel: heroes. Yes, they know about character driven anti heroic stories, and that is what we have before us. This is technically horror because we're talking about vamps and ghosts and goollies, But folks, it's more about Gothic romance. It's more about character drama. It's more about the nature of existing alongside one another for hundreds, thousands of years, and what would it take to build relationships? That could last that sort of time frame. What would it take to build a personality for yourself? Right. Stand that march of time.

Ashley: Watch the loss of

Joel: all of your loved ones. Right. The the the loss of the world that you understand and the slow growth of a world around you that is all but incomprehensible. That's what this series about. And I think that's the difference between what we could have gotten a couple of years ago with Hulu and what we are getting now with AMC. And I hadn't really thought about how lucky we are. This is the

Ashley: best time. We are very lucky. Yeah. This is definitely a we are we are in the preferred timeline. Yeah. Absolutely. I am going back to I know you we were kind of on the brink of it talking about, I assume Antoinette's Air quotes inverted commas murder. That we're shooting even

Joel: bad for that. Let's talk about the song. So Ashley

Ashley: -- Oh, god. -- fuck you. You gotta hear a mother.

Joel: You ever hear a more, write you a song?

Joel: Oh,

Ashley: man. No, not exactly, but I've had some sort of bullshit similar to that. And I just fucking crawled all over me. I have never been so annoyed. Yeah. Because it's the kind of shit that manipulative bullshit shit. And then, of course, he gets his lady friend of fucking sing. That just

Joel: Joel So here again, that's what I

Ashley: did. I think they I

Joel: think they weren't perfectly clear though because I saw a lot of people on Twitter get this wrong. Here's the sequence of events. L'Estat writes a song for Louie. Come to me, by the way, is the name of the song. It's Where does that come from? Let's go back. Episode one of this series as Lestat confronts Louie at Paul's funeral. They're marching there. No. Get away from me. He goes to the funeral. MamaDoolach disowns him effectively. He goes, he gets drunk. He tries eyes to find Lily. Lily's dead. He goes to the church. Please, God save me. The devil's got his roots in me, and then he ends up turning to a vampire because Liasat has been telepathically calling him the whole time. What does Liasat call to him? Come to me, Louie. Come to me. The music that's playing in that scene by the way. On the soundtrack, it's it's titled Vian Amois, which is French for Come to me. It's like poetry actually, it rhymes. That motherfucker has been saying come to me the entire time for their relationship. This is to refrain

Ashley: Yes. But he can't just fucking say it, Joel. He has to talk manipulate him. He has to send him songs and pull it was some bullshit.

Joel: People miss it. People miss it. There are two versions of this song. The second version that Daniel and Louie and Rashid and Doc for Reid, which we'll get to in a little

Ashley: while. Oh, lovely. They

Joel: all are listening to in modern day Dubai. That is a rerecording at some later unspecified date with only Only Lestat's voice. Mhmm. That's the version that we hear. It's full or it's a full orchestration and Lestat's voice. That's what we hear on the soundtrack itself. The version that they play in the show that Louis gets from L'Estat in nineteen thirty seven, thirty eight, whatever it was, and is playing in the room and then takes across the Mississippi River and breaks for Lostat and Antoinette. That version didn't have Lostat's voice on it at all. They had Antoinette. Oh, no motherfucker. You gonna write me a song that gets you levered a sound. No. Mm-mm. Are you fucked in the head?

Ashley: Yes. You are. Yes. You are. Fucked

Joel: On the flip side though, Ashley, he hadn't crossed that river until he got that vineyard.

Ashley: Oh, you That is a terrible reason. Never crossed the river for our record. Ladies and gentlemen, never crossed the river for our record.

Joel: List dad got fucked though, didn't eat. That's all I'm saying.

Ashley: I mean, it kicked her out of her own fucking house. The balls on these two. The balls on these

Joel: two to tell this morning to get out of the house.

Ashley: Well, and then they And he said there's there's three of them. There but there were three of you. And you you see the three of them, LaSalle, Louis, and Antoinette, and then you the next thing you see is Claudia. And it's

Joel: like Daniel Raymond.

Joel: Always

Ashley: fucking three of you no matter what. You can't you can't just be a couple You got all these fucking in intertwining relationships.

Joel: Well, and if anybody happen to watch the last scene in this episode, there might be three of you in the future as well that caused some problems back and forth. Mhmm. Mhmm. Who could it be now?

Ashley: I think they

Joel: I love this I love this whole part with Antoinette. Let me ask you this because, again, the fandom is

Ashley: confirmed. Take her off for real.

Joel: Could you I cut

Ashley: someone else's fucking finger off Brett's like Peter smelled it.

Joel: No. Homi, I think somebody is a big lebowski fan and they wanted to zoom in and show the missing digit I think it's I think

Ashley: it's a

Joel: direct reference to the big of an opportunity to cut off the pinky toe for the for the nihilist.

Ashley: Oh, I love it. I love it.

Joel: My question to you is, has Listot has Listot turn Turn her yet at this point?

Ashley: I don't think yet. Yes. I don't think so either. I don't think so either. I think he's just munch an honor. I think she knows he's she said you've made your promises or something to that like

Joel: Yeah. Promises were made promises will be kept.

Ashley: And that's, like, that's their deal. That's their arrangement. She's gonna do what she has to do to, like, let him happy again with Louis, but she has her fucking agenda. And it's to be a famous singer and she knows she can't do it there, but once he turns her, she'll have a lot more options.

Joel: Well, let's give a slight critique then here because I don't I like so much about this show. Let me tell you a a place where I think they kinda slipped up a bit. Antoinette, and the same thing was true for Grace in the last episode. They do not do the aging of the mortal characters quite as well as I would like. Antoinette should look older here. I mean, they've been together at this point almost twenty years by the time we see Claudia and Louis discover them together there on the stoop. Antoinette's gotta look older than that. Grace, last episode. Twenty years older than the start of the show. But

Ashley: she got to look away

Joel: later than she did.

Ashley: She did pretty much look the same. Yeah. That that is a good point. I didn't I didn't really think about that, and I think because it's just like, I don't think that I'm clocking the passage of time accurately. But I also think that that's something that they want. They don't want us to be able to clock it exactly. So I think maybe some of that Well, I'm giving that probably too much credit saying that's on purpose. They're just, like, wanting to kinda disorient you and not realize

Joel: Well, no. That that kinda makes sense. So if you think about it in in the in the way that time washes over these vampires. You know, sick there's a line in the Lord of the Rings show that that I just finished recently by

Ashley: -- Oh, by the way. -- so good. Holy shit. Yeah.

Joel: So it's so much better than anybody

Ashley: told me about it. Well, thank god. I thought it was just kind of okay. No. Third and fourth episodes.

Ashley: Listen, it's a slow build, but

Joel: the third and fourth episodes are great hooks. And then from there, it is excellent. It's everything you want from a fantasy

Ashley: show. There's even kid friendly. Yeah. There's a lot of things around my house. So no one ever had to convince me that was a good time.

Joel: Yeah. Absolute but but in particular, there's a line in that show

Joel: where

Joel: Duran and God, what is his name?

Ashley: The last half

Joel: elf? Elrond. Yes. Elrond Deerena speaking. And Elrond hasn't come to see him for quite some time during some pissed off. And it occurs to Elrond, like, twenty years is nothing for

Ashley: himself. Elrond doesn't feel like he hadn't

Joel: been there in that long. But for Duran, he's had children, he got married, Iran's missed all of this stuff.

Ashley: Yeah. I missed all these important things in my life. That are just Same thing for vampires

Joel: here. Like, these vampires, a year you know, it took three years for Louis to recover, and it wasn't that big a deal for him in Claudia. They were separated from from Lisbate for eight years here. And in their minds, when they're talking about the relationship, I think Louis would largely think of themselves as with Lisbate this entire time because eight years ain't nothing -- Right. -- you're gonna live forever.

Ashley: Absolutely. Without a doubt, like, time passage really has little to no meaning in this world.

Joel: That scene, by the way, where they break in and and hate fuck at Antoinette's house. Oh my god. It has the second favorite line of the whole episode. You swam the Mississippi to find me. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Let's start. Oh, I love you. The look on

Ashley: his He's so yep. He's so pleased. He's

Joel: so pleased that Louie

Ashley: came from him. He's yeah.

Joel: And and honestly, we've talked about it. Louie's given him so little reinforcement for these feelings. He's given him so little I mean, he he does fuck him occasionally. It turns out. But other than that, he won't tell him he love him. But

Ashley: he doesn't tell her delays. That wants so bad. But he'll never tell him to leave. To leave.

Joel: And here, what does he do? He swims in Mississippi. He goes for his man. He kicks Antoinette out. He kicks Lestat's ass too. But he also screws him and then brings

Ashley: him down.

Joel: You know? So he gives him the ass whooping that L'Estat deserved, which I loved. I think that's And also, I think Lrastat kind of enjoyed that too. That's Lrastat's personal bag of shit that he's bringing to the table. But, you know, when he stabs there right at the beginning. He he bites him at least twice. There's two sets of bite marks on his neck when they're having the conversation later about

Ashley: the walls.

Joel: So So this this was a huge form of domestic violence as well.

Joel: True

Ashley: that. I also thought it was very interesting. I feel like, let's start. Should have healed fairly quickly from those wounds. So it sort of made me feel like, is he choosing not to focus on his healing powers? Like, that's kind of how it made me think. Like, is he choosing to stay, like, in his appearance of being injured? To invoke sympathy from them because

Joel: That is interesting.

Ashley: To me, I felt like for him, like, get it's just gonna take Louis a wild hill up. So It's especially

Joel: broken bones.

Ashley: Oh, like internally just Just spell from the heavens. I love the way they address the cloud gift, by the way, like, they just were like, here's the deal and they explain it, and they're like, this is exactly what it's like, and it's not like Superman. That's a fictional character. And none of this is fiction.

Joel: His description Luis's description of it is almost directly out of the books, by

Ashley: the way, does feel

Joel: like floating. It does feel like just a based on your will, you just will yourself higher. And that's about all of the explanation of it that Anne gives.

Ashley: Now we absolutely get

Joel: There was an interesting discussion on our Facebook group about Which

Ashley: by the way, you guys are freaking awesome. I love

Joel: it. I

Ashley: love our conversations on there. I'm sorry. I haven't been more engaged this past weekend, but I'm ready to ROP, especially in our in our kind of in between seasons where we can really speculate.

Joel: Well, but the the very the question that came up in particular, that that I thought was relevant here is the nature of scientific answers to some of these miracles. And we get some, especially as the books go on, and has periods where she becomes very scientifically interested, I think. And so

Ashley: she adds a little bit more of that

Joel: to her writing. Yeah. And then she phases back out of it a little bit too. But I think at the core Anne is very much a liberal arts person. She's not a scientific student. That's not her background. That's not her love. That's not her passion. That's not her knowledge. And so even if you explain the nuts and bolts of, for instance, nuclear physics or or, you know, newtonian not newtonian physics, but, like, what's the quantum mechanics? For instance, quantum mechanics? If somebody's explaining quantum annex to me even if you're breaking it down for a child. It's all still gonna basically sound like magic to me at the end of it and like -- Right. -- if you give me a real description, I'm like, and that's miraculous. And I feel like that's the the angle that Anne comes from. And I think that's the universe that she's created here. That's the the sort of rule set. Somebody asked a question about how fast do vampires in her books heal? It's not instantaneous even for the very old ones. The very old ones are all but impervious, though. Right? Like

Ashley: -- Right.

Joel: -- if you're an ancient, you effectively can't be harmed by anything, punches even being stabbed by by things. You it almost doesn't It

Ashley: almost says more harm to the person trying to inflict Right

Joel: to the

Joel: object

Joel: to the person. Exactly unless that harm is being inflicted by another ancient. Right? So in that case, Louie's injuries here in the long recovery would make sense. Lastat's injuries, particularly particularly when you think about how much stronger he must be here as he was in the book.

Ashley: And they just seem so, like, innocuous. Like, like a little cut above his eyebrow. It's like it's nothing serious. It's nothing like what we saw Louie's busted ass looking like at the beginning of the episode. Like, it's a very mild. So part of me just felt like he has to be letting this linger on purpose somehow. Right. He said there's a little bit of a It's a little simpler they play.

Joel: I will say it did seem to me like literally they got out of bed, put on clothes, and then came back across the river to tell Claudia that he was moving back

Ashley: in pretty Like,

Joel: that seemed like it was almost immediately after

Ashley: Yeah. Or maybe this was an an the night the night after his return. You know, like -- Yeah. -- like she was already in bed when they got home, and now we have to have a big conversation the next day about why you took your asshole boyfriend back. For the nine hundred time even though they cheat on you constantly.

Joel: Question for you here. What were the first three rules? When we join that scene when we join that scene, Louie says rule number four and then and

Ashley: Killanch what now. They've

Joel: gotta kill they've gotta killanch what Exactly.

Ashley: Yeah. What are those first and the and rule and then we have you you can't lie by a mission or by What was it? By a mission or by a exaggeration?

Joel: Yes. And then I think they add one in a scene after that where they're all gonna kill human. If they hunt

Ashley: that was a great scene by the way.

Joel: Well, good

Ashley: example there of LISTA. City about eating people. Can we just eat people without feeling guilty?

Joel: Good example there of LISTA using the new paradigm to to, like, to turn to his favor. Right? He's like, oh, oh, okay. We're like a rule of we're like a council here. No no leader. We're all together as equals. Interesting. Two of us like to eat people and one of us don't. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that for a

Ashley: minute. That will be fine. That's less about me and more about you, Louis. Let's shift the focus.

Joel: I like that a lot. I also loved Claudia's response there when she bogs at him

Ashley: -- Yeah. --

Joel: because he said it's the the sheep leading the shepherd

Ashley: dog, you know.

Joel: So she's like, oh, Why don't you even speak to him?

Joel: Really,

Ashley: I love I love her her performance in this episode was fantastic. That the two of them at the at the chessboard was just chef's kiss to me. It was just such a great scene. They were so well mad you're seeing her really come into her own. What's fucked up is that she thinks she's really, really matching him and she has no idea how, like, out of her realm he is. Like, she's at this point where she's like, I'm figuring bring him out. I've got this shit together. Louis, we're gonna kill him and and he is so, like, even though she beat him a chess, he's still playing a whole fucking different game than she is.

Joel: Well, I did love that that whole chess scene was here's another example. You mentioned earlier the edit, the move in the camera from Antoinette as the third wheel to Claudia as the third wheel. That was an excellent editing move here to this entire scene as the tension builds over the chest game, but we're also going back and forth and getting the telepathic conversation between Claudia and Louie, which by the way, I'm a hundred percent on board now. I think the the creators did I think by giving them the mind gift. This is also it occurred to me. That's gonna come into season two as well. As Louis and other parties begin to have perhaps secret conversations outside of the hearing or knowledge of Claudia --

Ashley: Right. -- that

Joel: relationship sours, I think. I that occurred to me in this episode.

Ashley: Well, it's really Yeah. It's setting up it's setting up all of these like, betrayals that our our next betrayal was gonna mirror the previous one. It's it's literally we're repeating the same fuckups over and over and over again through, you know, the next thousand years just in a different version of it.

Joel: Absolutely. Through the decades.

Ashley: Thank god. Thank god. They're here to fuck it up because we could watch

Joel: it. Right. What would we do? What would we do if those Oh, damn it. I was gonna make a joke about Dallas, and I can't remember the name of the family now. The Ewing's, what would we do if those Ewing's weren't selling oil in Dallas? Right?

Ashley: These vampires weren't screwing in Louisiana. What would we do with ourselves?

Joel: Joel? Alright. Let's get to the the wrap up of this episode. That chess scene builds to a conclusion. And

Ashley: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Make sure

Joel: They're calling me to make sure revelation her revelation there. She says she's got a secret. I I have no secret something that, you know, nobody else knows, something that you don't know, that secret is you wanna kill him too. You wanna kill him too. And you're gonna enjoy it.

Ashley: And then they I love how that segues. That conversation starts with her and let's start playing playing chess. She starts talking to Louis then, and then it transfers to where she's in her coffin. Louis in Louie and L'Estat are in bed together. And if they're still having this conversation, L'Estat would be furious. Oh.

Joel: And dude. Not anybody would be like,

Ashley: I mean, how many years are you?

Joel: Listen. Everybody's had that moment in a relationship where you're going to town and you realize somebody else is not you

Ashley: Like, taking a grocery list or something like

Joel: We're thinking about their mother-in-law or did, you know, their performance review tomorrow at work. Right. Or maybe they're mad at you, but whatever reason they're not there with you in that moment. And Lestat knows he might not know he's talking to Claudia right then. He probably doesn't know that they're contemplating murdering him, but he absolutely knows that Louis is not checked in. I

Ashley: also think and maybe in his insecurity, he's gonna assume that that if Louis distracted, it's because of Claudia. Like, just because he's in that kind of fight or flight jealousy mode with her. And I think that that's so anytime he's, like, feels any sort of break with Louis, he's gonna blame it on her.

Joel: Well, and he can't L'Estat is not capable, I don't think, of believing that Louis that he's bad for Louis. You know, that there is a I don't think Lisad is capable of believing that this relationship is sour. And -- No. -- isn't what either one of them deserve. Right?

Ashley: He made Louis for he made Louis for himself. Come on now. I think she said it

Joel: took him it took him almost a century to try again. Like, that little reveal

Ashley: It took me so long to pick you. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Joel: So but but that crescendos, and now Louis says it to himself, we were going to kill lestad. And he repeats it for emphasis because he's making a point to Daniel, we were gonna kill the stock, and Daniel is fucking asleep.

Ashley: Rest out. Bless our guy.

Joel: So we didn't mention it. Doctor Fareed shows up earlier to administer the I guess, is that is it Kimo? No. Not Kimo's partner.

Ashley: I

Joel: think,

Joel: like,

Ashley: Yeah. Or and I think they were doing they talked about a a previous time. It sounded like they were doing, like, vitamin supplements and things like that. I'm not really sure. What this was. But, yeah, I love this doctor character. He's the whole time he's like, I'm not here. I don't exist. I don't talk about my patients.

Joel: Little hint here for folks. This character is a character from the books. We'll talk more about that in the easter egg section at the end of the episode, but For Reid is a character from the novel's super exciting introduction there, and I think they're hinting at a whole lot with that character especially. Daniel, though, falling asleep, I thought, was a really cute moment. And a nice And

Ashley: I'll, like, order him a blanket. Give a fuzzy blanky.

Joel: It's like a punctuation to this episode. And last episode, we've had this huge buildup of, like, tension and drama and violence. Yeah. Oh my god. They're gonna kill the stott. Everybody needs a fucking nap. It's gonna end in murder and what are we gonna do? We're gonna nap is what

Ashley: we're gonna do. Nah.

Joel: That's great. But but the nap also is the narrative sperm to allow us, our flashback sequence. We've been talking about this all season. We knew that we were gonna get a glimpse at a young

Ashley: day. Daniel, Daniel, We've

Joel: talked about the audition tape that that leaked on YouTube or whatever from that actor. Here finally, we get it. We get the scene. First of all, we have recognized as they zoom into San Francisco. It's a shot almost directly mimicked from the ninety four movies.

Ashley: Yes. Yes, a hundred percent. I number one, also okay. Yes. It was totally like a pull from the movie, and it totally felt so, like, so seventies. Like, I have a photograph that was taken, like, from the car in Reno, Nevada. When I could have been more than, like, three or four years old, but it's, like, lights reflecting and dashboard and cigarettes and was just like so it's the most seventies Polaroid you can imagine. And that's immediately what time this reminded me of. I was is like, holy shit. They just, like, gridded this all up in, like, in a flash.

Joel: So we we followed Daniel as he enters the bar what was it? Polynesian Mary's. He enters the bar goes directly to the bar itself, sits down.

Ashley: Recognized for the bartender,

Joel: Oh, yeah. Okay. So let's talk about that for a minute.

Ashley: He's about not having money.

Joel: He argues with Louis earlier and says, no, I wasn't gay. I was just there to

Ashley: or drugs. Easy

Joel: places to

Ashley: score drugs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It happened in there. Who cares that it was a gay bar? Blah blah blah. Whatever. No. This guy is there on the regular

Joel: Yeah. And not just that, but it's sort of a nuisance because he's generally there without cash. He comes there at least to score drugs and he knows part of the way to

Ashley: score drugs is because he's gonna hook up with somebody. Now whether or not he is personally pursuing these relationships, I suppose you could still argue But I say the way that he looks at Louis in this episode, the way that he looks at the other person that's in this this scene here, I say Daniel, at this point, very much

Joel: a gay man.

Ashley: Well, and at the very least, he's using that interview ploy to get what he wants. Yeah. You know? Like, at the very very minimal. What we're getting is this guy has got his like get. He's either using that to get ass or to get drugs or to get drugs an ass. Whatever. You know? Absolutely.

Joel: Let's get

Ashley: the whole What percent is that

Joel: wrong? So the big reveal, of course, though, in this first of all, let's talk about Louie's hair here and

Ashley: Oh my god. So fantastic. Can he please be in every I need to see Louis in every decade. Yes. In every time, he's over here. Anderson

Joel: everywhere. He looks so

Ashley: crazy. Every other day,

Ashley: he's cool. In the seventies, he's cool. Also, he looks so happy here. He's so sad. He's so somber. In the in the old story

Joel: line, he's depressed. He is so happy. And

Ashley: he just looks forward at my house

Joel: portraying it.

Ashley: He smiles at Daniel and then he crinkles his nose. Like, he smiles and then crinkles his nose. And was When he says he's a vampire. Yeah. He's a vampire and he laughs.

Joel: The way that he laughs it off is so it's like childish and young and flirty.

Ashley: Yeah. It is. Yeah. I get

Joel: into this Louie a lot.

Ashley: Yeah. I really I felt the exact same way I was like, this is either a really exciting time for Louie or he's in that place, that dark place where he's like, I fuck it. I don't know what's gonna happen, but here we go. I might end up in the sun before the end of tonight.

Joel: So they agree. They're going to go to Louise House, which is not very far on Divisadero Street and

Ashley: Love the way he said that too. I know

Joel: right. They're gonna do their little interview If anything else happens, Daniel's cool with it. But, you know

Joel: But

Ashley: yeah. Whatever. Because Danny

Joel: says, what do you think? Is that okay with you? Do you wanna join us in his companion steps forward? Who is his companion in the seventies? It's rashy. It's rashy.

Ashley: Yeah. Now everyone's like, where she's our mind? Like, definitely. And I don't know. I still don't think it's true.

Joel: It is more likely than not. I mean,

Ashley: there's absolutely like Adam's

Joel: razor. Adam's razor says that he's Armand. There is absolutely

Ashley: I mean, I'm gonna lie. I'm probably gonna like it eventually. But right now, I'm like, oh, I don't really like this, but I'm probably gonna be fine.

Joel: Here's how they could talk me into lacking it. Right? This very much implies that something happens between them and and Daniel has been mind wiped. Right?

Ashley: Oh, yeah. He can't remember

Joel: memorized so that he can't remember this, but he didn't even

Joel: know

Joel: where she'd was there until this moment. He

Ashley: wasn't Until this moment. Agreement recognizes. But also, is it just a dream?

Joel: That's true. Yeah. That's true too. Is it just a dream today?

Ashley: I'm like with the people on Twitter. It's like, camera sheet. Just be a sheet. Cheah. Jesus.

Joel: So I still think there's a few possibilities. He could be some other very old vampire. There are a handful that would make sense in different ways. And that would connect to some of the storylines that we think they're leading to. He could be. There there's a group of characters in in the very later books, the Prince ofstadt books, called the people of the purpose. He could be one of those people possibly. I don't think though. I don't think so though. I think the I don't

Ashley: think they would go that far ahead right now. I

Joel: I agree. I

Ashley: agree. That's driving a lot of things and

Joel: bringing in

Ashley: a certain Thirteen books ahead. Right? Yeah. Like, there's a lot in there before we Yeah.

Joel: Yeah. So I think the most likely answer is that he is in fact Armand or or some version of Armand. Why is he using the name Rashid? Why have they done this whole song and dance for Daniel's benefit? Now, Ashley, doesn't that call into question the entire like, everything that we've heard about why Louis is doing this. The warning that it is to the world, Rashid has said that it's a suicide

Ashley: suicide. By Louis -- Yeah. -- part all of

Joel: that is called into question for me. Too

Ashley: excited about my thing about

Joel: the nature of their relationship with Daniel already. Right? No. So that that

Ashley: causes the

Joel: question the whole nine yards.

Ashley: Right. You think

Joel: we'll get the answer in episode seven. Thank goodness. I don't think we're gonna leave this line. And I

Ashley: Those bastards cliff hanger us like that. Yeah. I will beat a bitch.

Joel: I'll say this. If you think about where, let's start excuse me, where Louis and Armand are, at the end of their relationship in the book. You know, they they get together at the end of interview with the vampire and they sort of ride off into the sunset except not really, because they're not happy with one another.

Ashley: Right. They end up yeah. They end up On their separate ways. Don't they? Don't they stop.

Joel: Yes. They do. They park for quite a while. Yeah. That was the dynamic that I saw with Rashid as he as Louis asked him, do you wanna join us? And Rashid says, no, have your fun and walks away. And to me, In that moment, I thought, boy, that's a lot like what happens when Ormond and Louis sour on each other, isn't it? Louis, like, hey, let's do let's go over here and let's do this and let's do that. And our minds like why don't you love me like I want you to? Why don't you want to go to all of the museums in Europe? Why don't you teach me about this thing called the telephone? You know? Like, I very much do think --

Ashley: I love him. -- the spirits that you are of, Armand. You know, he's a

Joel: real shit. He's I like him too. Don't get me wrong, but he's a real chill.

Ashley: A hundred percent. What a dick? But

Joel: as a guy who kinda thinks our minds of shit, the fact that Louis has been making him play his house boy for this entire on

Ashley: record. That is very satisfying.

Joel: I'd be very much down with that if that

Ashley: is not

Joel: being true. So Like,

Ashley: he's making some words there.

Joel: But folks, you've gotta be wondering, like, you know something's up with Rashid. We're telling you that's one of the possibilities he could be our sort of season two films.

Ashley: He also went through sun again this episode, but we all know that they just kind of sizzle. So who the fuck knows? Right? And what do the ancients do? You know? We know that the the Yeah. Not much. The millennial and the younger.

Joel: Yeah. They don't even notice it in the book. So so

Ashley: maybe they

Joel: don't even sizzle. Maybe and here's the other thing too. We know that the panels can be turned on and off. Yeah. Well Can they be allowed in some version of sunlight that the that the vampires aren't affected by. You know, so

Ashley: it looks like I think in this episode, they set that up. It really felt like that like Daniel and the doctor. Were at one point in what seemed like natural light. And then Louis was sitting across from them in, obviously, the artificial light, and Rashid was over in the corner, also in artificial light. And then he passed quickly through the natural light but kind of stuck towards the wall. So where it was a quick pass and that he was in the shadows again. So I don't know. I think at the very least, they're just messing with us. At the very most, it's our mind, and I'm gonna have to wrap my head around this introduction.

Joel: Y'all. Next week, the trailer, they're going to Mardi Gras.

Ashley: It is gonna be so much fun and so much death.

Joel: It's gonna be it's gonna be hellacious. Oh, oh, oh, a quick quick schedule update here. We have talked on the show before, we thought we were gonna go two weeks in between episodes as there had been a rumor somehow spread that AMC was going to make the streamers and the cable folks sync up for the finale. I'm not sure.

Ashley: That if it was the truth, but I've

Joel: got

Ashley: to mind it

Joel: either. I'm glad I'm not having to wait an extra week. I will say this. If you're a cable viewer, you need to know that. And for me, I'd go radio silence. Starting next Sunday morning.

Ashley: Yeah, guys.

Joel: You need to get off Twitter. You need to get off Facebook and just wait the week. I'm

Ashley: afraid. Jump on yourself at The show is

Joel: finally available for you on cable because we're not gonna be able to not talk about

Ashley: it. No. And jump on a or maybe jump on a seven day trial and just get it and get it early. Like, You know, do we Not a bad idea either. I'm not I mean, I'm not above suggesting that. Do what you gotta do, friends.

Joel: Absolutely, absolutely. And then you can still watch it again on cable as as they finish it off on the on the thirteenth. But that means that we will have our spoil our our finale discussion next week. And then on the thirteenth, we'll release an episode where we talk about the season as a whole, we're gonna do some feedback from from our listeners and our our followers on Facebook, etcetera. And we'll talk a little bit of speculation at that point for season two. Then we'll probably go into hiatus for a few weeks as we prepare and await the launch of the mainstream

Ashley: series. Damn which book.

Joel: You have finished that giant book. That that Harry Hamlin refuses to read. Boo on you, Harry, we're gonna do it. Boo on you, Harry. Homework, but I've already read

Ashley: it. I'm reading it again. Like, it's a grade for high school. Get it together.

Joel: So so there you go. That that is this episode. It was a good one, a big twist at the end. Big surprise. Lots of folks had theorized in different ways that this was coming. We've talked about whether Rashid's of Empire. We've been back and forth on it. Yes, he is. No. It looks like he's human. Maybe he's one of these other things. Where could it go?

Ashley: Also, the asshole's always wearing gloves. It's like

Joel: I mean, now I think that's he's gotta

Ashley: be behind

Joel: his fingernails. Right? Surely, he's had his his lossy fingernails, but like An

Ashley: hour is Why is he not the same department? Sparkling. That's

Joel: right. What isn't he have the fancy vampire eyes exactly? I don't know. I don't know. We're gonna get our answers hopefully, though. Starting next week with with the season finale.

Ashley: I'm ready.

Joel: What a blessing to be here and get this amazing storytelling? I wanna move to some Easter eggs. So if you are not a book reader and you don't wanna be spoiled with speculation more than we already have been, now's your time to bounce off. Ashley, let's dive into it. First and foremost, let's do talk about doctor Fareed. Doctor Fareed is a character that appears for the first time in the novels in Prince Let's start. He's actually brought into the vampiric world as or or by the biological son of Akasha. Akasha has a biological son named

Ashley: Oh. He's

Joel: one of the children of the millennia. He's been around for a long time. Or actually, he's one of the first brood, I think, technically. And Seth creates doctor Fareed. Unlike effectively every vampire in aneurysm universe, who are all created for their beauty and for love, generally. Right? The vampires find somebody who

Ashley: is gorgeous,

Joel: or they find somebody they fall in love with it. Turn them into vampires. Mhmm. In this case, Seth went out and found someone who was incredibly intelligent and scientifically minded. In particular, he wanted someone who could study and ascertain the nature of vampirism. And that's what he got in doctor Fareed. Doctor Fareed has turned into a vampire and then is involved in a few different storylines involving the blood and the nature of the blood and

Ashley: how it changes the

Joel: empiric bodies and how it affects them moving forward. So he should not theoretically be presented to us, the listener, the viewer, the reader, at this point in the storyline. However

Ashley: Or in broad daylight,

Joel: Right. Well, that's the other thing. He's probably not a vampire yet. I would say. This this presentation of him is actually congruent though because in the story, he was already working with vampires. Seth had already brought him in and he had a relationship with Seth and was doing things for Seth, experiments for Seth in between the queen of the damned storyline and MIMNOC the devil storylines. That's where for reads. Alright. The vampiric story begins, even though we, the reader, don't learn about it until the Prince Laistat. I won't give you more than that because you don't you have a read about it either. That's right. So but that's that's who that character is. He's got a lot of part to play. And to me, the idea that he's on the board we're still thinking this is prequel to the damned. The idea that he's on board before we have to tackle Lakeasha and that whole storyline, I think is really, really exciting and offers some interesting options for our heroes as they try to save the world.

Ashley: All I could think about when he was introduced was in Hamilton when they say, you have the doctor's hurt his back so he can have deniability.

Joel: That

Ashley: was like a gift saying, I'm not here. Nope. That's not that's not my voice. It

Joel: was very nice to not have met you. It

Ashley: was very nice to know when Yes. Yes. Exactly.

Joel: I love the actor, by the way, that I think that's a really good portrayal. And boy, could they find two more attractive brown men than Fareed and and Rashid in this show, by the way. They were both on a showcase here.

Ashley: Honestly Good

Joel: looking fellas, life and right.

Ashley: Feel like we are getting delivery on good looking humans across the board. Congratulations. Viewers, here are your sexy vampires and vampire friends, vampire adjacent friends, and they are all good looking. Just like you wanted. And none of

Joel: them sparkle, which is better. We we need we hey. We shine on our own. We don't need

Ashley: to That's right. We only need to spark. Call.

Joel: Okay.

Joel: So that's the first one. The second one, Rashid. Who could Rashid be? There are other options out there. Seth, for instance, It could be Seth because he has that relationship with doctor Fareed, and he is a very ancient vampire. Maybe would make sense that he would be tied to you know, eastern religions. I I don't know. That's a possibility. I think the answer though was our mind. I

Ashley: think the consistency

Joel: would be I mean, if you look at the timeline, the fact that we're going to Europe in the forties, the idea that L'Estat and I mean, that Louis and Arman would still be together in the seventies. Absolutely makes sense. Uh-huh. Makes sense that that would be when they were souring. Right?

Ashley: That would be

Joel: the the departure there. And then the other thing that that leads me to call

Ashley: you. Might be a a time where Louis would have more confidence because he's with a different partner, you know, a partner. And

Joel: he's far enough away from the events of of the first novel that he's got a little bit of closure there, you know. Yeah. And yet whatever modern day circumstance has changed things for him hasn't arisen yet. You know? So also, he's still killing humans at that point. He said earlier he has killed anyone since the two thousands. So in the seventies, he was still killed people.

Ashley: It's still killed the peoples.

Joel: The other thing that I that I wanna put in there as far as, like, the Rashid question goes, if it is our wand, then it leaves open the door to that relationship between Armando and Daniel from the seventies

Ashley: -- Absolutely. --

Joel: as it appears in the novels. Right?

Ashley: Or could even be referencing a relationship yet to come -- Kind of setting that up. -- setting up that tension, setting up that that kind of, like, knowing. But man, if he didn't, say, gave him a forgetful pill, that's really sucks.

Joel: Well, I mean, in again, it goes to show how even in relationships where I mean, theoretically, if they transfer some of the things from the book. Like Daniel would say that or excuse me, Arman would say that he loves Daniel in the books. And yet, he he treats him in this, like, clearly, hateful, torturous way for years

Ashley: -- Right. -- you

Joel: know. And here, if the two of them, if Louis and Arment, were complicit in blocking a part of Daniel's entire life.

Ashley: Remember me? Exactly. That's Yeah. His whole memory,

Joel: giving him forty years of thinking that everything went one way when in fact had gone a different way.

Ashley: Well, that's a thing about all of these characters have this

Joel: potential

Ashley: for evil and for bullshittery and fuckery. They all have that innate in them, and all of them are unreliable narrators. We don't have a reliable narrator in the bunch.

Joel: Indeed.

Joel: Indeed. They lie is what they do. Like, even when they don't I mean, even when they know the truth they lie, but often they don't care about things or process things. Just like we said earlier about the processing of time, It's like these vampires exist on a different plane than we are, even though they interact with the physical world like we do. And because of that, the way that they understand things clearly isn't and can't be the way that we understand things. And the things that they care about and prioritize won't be the things that we care about and prioritize. And yet, they struggle like we do to maintain human relationship and to build those and grow those over time.

Ashley: Communication's really challenging, Joel.

Joel: Use your words. No secrets. No secrets.

Ashley: Use your damn word.

Joel: Oh, so one other thing that I did wanna mention. We mentioned earlier in the episode that this is the first call out specifically of Lestat as a brat. Of course,

Ashley: he's known as the brat brats

Joel: in the novels, that is was Anne's favorite moniker for him. Very much. Also, Claudia makes the reference to Lastat as the father of

Joel: the

Joel: child. Of course. A great line from the book, and it was used to very good effect by Kirsten Diamonds version in ninety four as well. So I like that that call out there. List not doesn't get to hear it, but but Louis gets to hear that Barb from Claudia as they're discussing him. I love where the show is going. I think think I've got a glimpse now of where they're gonna wrap up this season and and how they're gonna head in. I

Ashley: can't believe we only have one

Joel: episode left. I know I know I know I know I we need and I ask for this on Twitter. I said, AMC, we've gotta get timelines for the second season production. When when does that start? When can we expect it? What are the timelines here? Is there gonna be a spin off? When is that coming? We need to know just so that we can manage our heart palpitations between here.

Ashley: And when they come back, trying to live our lives here.

Joel: Absolutely. So folks, we will be back next week with our discussion of episode seven. The season finale for interview with a vampire from AMC and AMC Plus. And we would love to have your feedback on what you think so far of this episode, but the season as a whole. How are you enjoying this adaptation? Yes. And we want you to join us next week as well. If you're a cable viewer, I'm sorry. It'll be another week for you, but And

Ashley: we love you. We love you. Caught up with this. You're so brave and strong? We absolutely do.

Joel: When you get caught up with us with us on the thirteenth, you'll get two episodes to listen to that day as you'll have episode seven discussion, but also our season long recap will be available that weekend as well. So you'll you'll have a little bounty for you there. Next week when you get caught up.

Ashley: Such guys are true. A couple

Joel: weeks from now when you get caught up. Until we talk to you again next week, we have been your hosts. Ashley Wright Eiler. And I'm Joel Sharpton, and we are the articulate

Joel: cousin. Thanks for listening to the Articulate Cover. You can join our community on Facebook by following the links in the show notes or searching for articulate coven on Facebook. You can subscribe to the show in Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or at articulatecoven dot com. And share us with your amriest loving friends.